Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[dholliday]

My issues around booster mandates would be far more around rich countries hogging vaccines than the “status the unvaccinated are currently enduring”

Can you answer these?

1) So you wouldn't support policy which would give the double-dosed less freedoms than the triple-dosed?

2) Do you support the policy which gives the unvaccinated less freedoms than the double-dosed?


We're speaking of US/UK/Europe here, which probably represents 99% of our members. Israel is possibly showing the way things might go. Policy-influencers seem non-committal so far.

Due to the nature of this disease perhaps this is as good as we could hope for (especially within the timescale) in regards to the efficacy of the vaccines but I can only speak anecdotally and say a majority of people I know and have spoken to on this issue do not want to take yearly boosters, never mind boosters five months after your last jab.

I’m interested to see if we do follow suit here domestically but the issue that has been raised is the truly pertinent one- if we don’t follow other countries in regard to their booster plans would a double dosed person not be considered “fully vaccinated” internationally? Maybe it’ll become part of standard holiday immunisations- double dosed is enough here in the UK but if you want to travel in the future you’ll need a top up.

That's a sound description of the issue.

 

[LinekersLegs]

Can you answer these?

1) So you wouldn't support policy which would give the double-dosed less freedoms than the triple-dosed?

2) Do you support the policy which gives the unvaccinated less freedoms than the double-dosed?


We're speaking of US/UK/Europe here, which probably represents 99% of our members. Israel is possibly showing the way things might go. Policy-influencers seem non-committal so far.







That's a sound description of the issue.

No because right now the “status of the unvaccinated“ that I am most interested in is the huge numbers of them across the South gasping in hospitals with a Cat 4 hurricane bearing down on them but who cannot be evacuated because their surrounding states are also heaving with unvaccinated patients.

 

[BlueStevie35]

No hospital figures reported for today, last Sunday’s late revealed total was 22

All settings - for the 28 day cut off, 61 deaths were announced today, down 72 on yesterday and up 12 on last Sunday. The 7 day rolling average rises to 113.86

For the 60 day cut off, 68 deaths were announced today, down 81 on yesterday and up 14 on last Sunday. The 7 day rolling average rises to 131.57

 

[PhilM]

Covid in Scotland: Record number of cases as NHS faces 'perfect storm'

A total of 7,113 new cases have been recorded in the last 24 hours, topping the previous high from Friday.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[verreauxi]

Florida radio host who called himself ‘Mr Anti-Vax’ dies of Covid-19

Station and friends pay tribute to host Marc Bernier, who was hospitalized three weeks ago

www.theguardian.com

 

[dholliday]

.

No because right now the “status of the unvaccinated“ that I am most interested in is the huge numbers of them across the South gasping in hospitals with a Cat 4 hurricane bearing down on them but who cannot be evacuated because their surrounding states are also heaving with unvaccinated patients.

it would be useful to know demographics: age/bmi/pre-existing illnesses, of the ICU-hospitalised.

With this information the general - relatively healthy young-to-middle-aged - populace can better decide for themselves if a vaccine is necessary. As it seems there is a preconception that most of the hospitalised are old/obese/pre-ill, a preconception which may be discouraging many from getting vaccinated.

If the aim is to convince the unvaxxed to get the jab, this information would surely be useful.

You seen anything like this?

 

[grandjoeblue]

Covid in Scotland: Record number of cases as NHS faces 'perfect storm'

A total of 7,113 new cases have been recorded in the last 24 hours, topping the previous high from Friday.

www.bbc.co.uk

Numbers don't look great but its time to stop the testing at schools which is causing the massively inflated numbers.

 

[PhilM]

Numbers don't look great but its time to stop the testing at schools which is causing the massively inflated numbers.

On the flip side, testing at schools may mean those children isolate and limit spread unless the principle is now to let it run rife.

 

[dholliday]

The tide may be turning in people's attitudes towards enduring the pandemic-policies.
this is the top-rated Guardian comment, very unusual as normally that site's readership are very pro-policies, anti-critical (very similar to this thread):

Originally we were told we'd be free when the over 70s were vaccinated. Then it was the over 50s. Then the over 18s. Then it was when the whole adult population was double vaccinated. Now apparently vulnerable people need boosters. The goalposts are always being moved.

Is it any wonder that vaccine doses are being 'hoarded' under these circumstances? Any deviation from a total safety approach is deemed 'risky' and 'not following the science'.


What i've bolded seems to be the main thing people are beginning to spot, which is what this fella alluded to:




The communication from the world's media/governments is clear as mud. The Science has become an inconsistent religion.

Comms needs to be much better if the aim is to get over the pandemic with as little damage to life and society as possible.

 

[grandjoeblue]

The tide may be turning in people's attitudes towards enduring the pandemic-policies.
this is the top-rated Guardian comment, very unusual as normally that site's readership are very pro-policies, anti-critical (very similar to this thread):

Originally we were told we'd be free when the over 70s were vaccinated. Then it was the over 50s. Then the over 18s. Then it was when the whole adult population was double vaccinated. Now apparently vulnerable people need boosters. The goalposts are always being moved.

Is it any wonder that vaccine doses are being 'hoarded' under these circumstances? Any deviation from a total safety approach is deemed 'risky' and 'not following the science'.


What i've bolded seems to be the main thing people are beginning to spot, which is what this fella alluded to:




The communication from the world's media/governments is clear as mud. The Science has become an inconsistent religion.

Comms needs to be much better if the aim is to get over the pandemic with as little damage to life and society as possible.

Out of interest, what would be your route forward?

 

[LinekersLegs]

.

it would be useful to know demographics: age/bmi/pre-existing illnesses, of the ICU-hospitalised.

With this information the general - relatively healthy young-to-middle-aged - populace can better decide for themselves if a vaccine is necessary. As it seems there is a preconception that most of the hospitalised are old/obese/pre-ill, a preconception which may be discouraging many from getting vaccinated.

If the aim is to convince the unvaxxed to get the jab, this information would surely be useful.

You seen anything like this?

Pre Delta but the usual 4 things you’d expect as non age risk factors - obesity, diabetes, hypertension, and heart failure

Most COVID-19 hospitalizations due to four conditions

A study estimated that nearly two-thirds of COVID-19 hospitalizations in the U.S. could be attributed to obesity, diabetes, hypertension, and heart failure.

www.nih.gov

But given that around 40% of US adults are classified obese alone those risk factors are very common across the population.

Although with Delta seeing lots of anecdotal reports re pregnancy too although haven’t seen hard data

Doc Tells of ‘Scary’ Reality for Pregnant Women With COVID

“I’ve never had this many [patients] in the ICU at one time,” says Dr. Akila Subramaniam.

www.thedailybeast.com

 

[dholliday]

Out of interest, what would be your route forward?

A three-prong focus which keeps society ticking, while protecting the most at risk:

1) Protect the at-risk groups, allow the non-risk groups normal freedoms.

We'd have to get very specific about how we did this, as things get complicated quickly. But we know who statistically is far more likely to be ICU-hospitalised, and who isn't. We (most countries) have barely taken this into account so far. Instead we've just gone for a protect-everyone route...but we still see lots of death, lots of illness and a slowly-going-insane society. We're losing small businesses, culture and mental health. The kids are suffering. Scary inflation is a real danger. And the us-vs-them polarisation is getting out-of-hand.


2) Focus on developing effective medicinal treatments for the infected who are experiencing symptoms, as the vaccine's effectiveness seriously wanes after merely a few months, while the unvaccinated-infected will have longer-lasting more-effective immunity over a vaccinated non-infected (see my previous links on this). Mass-produce these treatments in a coordinated world-wide effort to protect the relatively rare occurences a healthy non-high-risk person gets ICU-ill, and to generally minimise heavy illnesses many otherwise-healthy folk have reported, including long-covid.

In the race for a hollywood-style vaccine, we seem to have neglected treatment-development. Herd-immunity was actually a good idea at the beginning of the pandemic, it was lambasted at the time.


3) Global pressure on China to fully investigate the origins of the virus. Any fuller understanding of the origins will help development of treatments, and perhaps longer-lasting vaccines.


I think 2) is the only realistic option now, as we're too far all-in on option 1), and China are too powerful to allow 3).

2) might be enough tho' to finally see some light at the end of the tunnel. Some policy-makers are beginning to see things this way too. I realise folk on here hate the Tories, but this man is the UK's Health Minister and he is pushing for things like this as a means to end the pandemic:

UK regulator approves ‘first of its kind’ Covid antibody treatment

Sajid Javid says green light for Ronapreve – which was used to treat Donald Trump – is ‘fantastic news’

www.theguardian.com

 

[dholliday]

But given that around 40% of US adults are classified obese alone those risk factors are very common across the population.

Even Germany has around 25%. The pandemic is a fantastic excuse to seriously get those numbers down. Prevention is half the battle. Obesity can be reduced to mere overweight for the vast majority, but it needs motivation & structural support.

Tho' this graph i linked earlier only had obesity as a pre-existing illness for Covid deaths 4% of the time...and I read elsewhere that most of these were 40+ BMI (seriously obese):

Pre Delta but the usual 4 things you’d expect as non age risk factors - obesity, diabetes, hypertension, and heart failure

Aye...focus on those at relative high-risk. Promote the vaccine, protect them.

I would support those not at relative risk to have the freedom to choose how they manage the pandemic (outside of personal indoor contact with at-risk folk).

 

[TN Toffee]

Pre Delta but the usual 4 things you’d expect as non age risk factors - obesity, diabetes, hypertension, and heart failure

Most COVID-19 hospitalizations due to four conditions

A study estimated that nearly two-thirds of COVID-19 hospitalizations in the U.S. could be attributed to obesity, diabetes, hypertension, and heart failure.

www.nih.gov

But given that around 40% of US adults are classified obese alone those risk factors are very common across the population.

Although with Delta seeing lots of anecdotal reports re pregnancy too although haven’t seen hard data

Doc Tells of ‘Scary’ Reality for Pregnant Women With COVID

“I’ve never had this many [patients] in the ICU at one time,” says Dr. Akila Subramaniam.

www.thedailybeast.com

Gotta be even higher than that in the South, where things are worst right now.

 

[dholliday]

the us-vs-them polarisation is getting out-of-hand.

Choice example...this is the former US Secretary of Education:




Screenshot in case he deletes it: