Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[Bruce Wayne]

The whole "we've exported XX vaccines and you've only exported XX" is utter nonsense - countries export nothing, companies do - unless we're suggesting that everything produced in a country by a private company automatically becomes the property of that country? Sounds a bit totalitarian to me.

I think you're missing the point. It's not a case of whether a country produces vaccines or not, as obviously they don't, but their attitude towards free trade. If they prohibit the exporting of products then that's a bad thing, regardless of whether it's done by the UK, the EU, or the US. If the UK hadn't introduced limits on what AZ could do with vaccines produced at their factories then they would have been exported, but they did introduce them, so they haven't been, just as America is limiting the trade in any vaccine-related products made on US soil.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

So why haven't the EU gone legal on AZ Bruce?

I suspect because doing so would not speed up the supply of vaccines to people. This kind of situation will always require a degree of good faith and AZ promised the first dance to two dates at the same time.

 

[peteblue]

So why haven't the EU gone legal on AZ Bruce?

Like everything else in the EU they will tell you it takes years and years......until it’s forgotten about and the guilty have moved into another job....

 

[peteblue]

I think you're missing the point. It's not a case of whether a country produces vaccines or not, as obviously they don't, but their attitude towards free trade. If they prohibit the exporting of products then that's a bad thing, regardless of whether it's done by the UK, the EU, or the US. If the UK hadn't introduced limits on what AZ could do with vaccines produced at their factories then they would have been exported, but they did introduce them, so they haven't been, just as America is limiting the trade in any vaccine-related products made on US soil.

Bruce, if BMW introduced a new vehicle and could only produce 10 a week, and I helped them set up the manufacturing plant and ordered the first 100 cars, they would provide me with the first 100 cars. They wouldn’t allow you to just come along at a later date, order cars, and insist that that 5/10 were given to you. It’s called business and it’s covered in contracts. Ours states that we get first production, yours states you get best endeavours from additional factories being set up in Europe....

 

[peteblue]

I suspect because doing so would not speed up the supply of vaccines to people. This kind of situation will always require a degree of good faith and AZ promised the first dance to two dates at the same time.

What ’good faith’ have the EU shown, either with this vaccine debacle or even with the threat to the NI border. VDL, a second rate minister cocked up, she and her second rate assistants are covering their backs and protecting their well paid jobs. Meanwhile they have still done sod all to try and make more of the vaccine.....

 

[Mrk]

I think you're missing the point. It's not a case of whether a country produces vaccines or not, as obviously they don't, but their attitude towards free trade. If they prohibit the exporting of products then that's a bad thing, regardless of whether it's done by the UK, the EU, or the US. If the UK hadn't introduced limits on what AZ could do with vaccines produced at their factories then they would have been exported, but they did introduce them, so they haven't been, just as America is limiting the trade in any vaccine-related products made on US soil.

I'm in favour of free trade in all conditions, but we all know that it's an illusion. Countries always have and always will limit free trade when it comes to areas of national defence and health, because their responsibility is to protect their citizens.

The procurement, sourcing, manufacture and distribution of vaccines is an agreement between governments and companies - if the EU or any nation feels that a company is not meeting its contractual obligations, it should sue the company. That's a perfectly reasonable course of action.

 

[Tubey]

If variants are the concern, why not just test all arrivals at ports and airports? Instead of the whole population?

I mean i get a new variant might emerge domestically, but £100bn is crazy.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I'm in favour of free trade in all conditions, but we all know that it's an illusion. Countries always have and always will limit free trade when it comes to areas of national defence and health, because their responsibility is to protect their citizens.

The procurement, sourcing, manufacture and distribution of vaccines is an agreement between governments and companies - if the EU or any nation feels that a company is not meeting its contractual obligations, it should sue the company. That's a perfectly reasonable course of action.

And in other circumstances one they may well have taken, but as I said before, that would not speed up getting jabs into people's arms, which is the priority right now. Whether it will be revisited when the dust has settled, who knows.

 

[Mrk]

And in other circumstances one they may well have taken, but as I said before, that would not speed up getting jabs into people's arms, which is the priority right now. Whether it will be revisited when the dust has settled, who knows.

I entirely agree - but that legitimate action is being substituted for faux outrage that other nations are doing what they always have and always will do during times of crisis; putting themselves first. They're either naive or incompetent.

 

[tsubaki]

If variants are the concern, why not just test all arrivals at ports and airports? Instead of the whole population?

I mean i get a new variant might emerge domestically, but £100bn is crazy.

TBF "crazy" does let them off the hook a bit - if it is a real scheme, its probably aimed at stuffing yet more of our cash down the throats of private firms rather than setting up a (much cheaper) system that will protect us against this and the next pandemic.

I do doubt its a real scheme though; I mean the question of actually sending the tests out and getting them back is a massive one, then there is the civil liberties question, and then there is the apparent lack of any means by which people who test positive are actually supported. It is probably more nonsense kite-flying from the Red Baron of such things.

 

[Tubey]

TBF "crazy" does let them off the hook a bit - if it is a real scheme, its probably aimed at stuffing yet more of our cash down the throats of private firms rather than setting up a (much cheaper) system that will protect us against this and the next pandemic.

I do doubt its a real scheme though; I mean the question of actually sending the tests out and getting them back is a massive one, then there is the civil liberties question, and then there is the apparent lack of any means by which people who test positive are actually supported. It is probably more nonsense kite-flying from the Red Baron of such things.

I largely agree. Labour have correctly once again pointed out that without financial support people will not risk a positive test, rendering it pointless. The same reason why test and trace is doomed to failure long term.

Just seems unnecessary. If the aim is to suppress variants until vaccines are in full effect, we're an island nation, its a relatively simple thing to do by tracking and testing all arrivals.

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

What has the UK government done to help others? It's well established that no vaccines have left these shores to go anywhere else.

Novovax bought a large vaccine production facility outside of Prague last summer Pete.

Novavax Expands Large-Scale Global Manufacturing Capacity | Novavax Inc. - IR Site

ir.novavax.com

The problem they're having in signing the contract and putting such facilities to use is because they're struggling to source the materials necessary to actually make the vaccines and fulfill the contract. Unlike AZ they're not charlatans who will sign a contract knowing full well they won't be able to honour it.

As far as I’m aware, it takes two parties to sign a contract.

The EU are at fault for not nailing AZ down on production and delivery.

The contract had been described as flaky at best. It has allowed AZ massive wiggle room.

 

[Jebus_lives]

So why haven't the EU gone legal on AZ Bruce?

I think they've sent a formal letter outlining concerns, which would amount to the first step in conflict resolution. And would be expected by courts before any other legal action.

 

[degsy]

'weve moved on'
'not the right time'
'the public have had enough of it'
'people are tired of this'
'what good will it do'
'its just being politicised'
'we're just focussing on getting the country back on it's feet'
'there is no appetite for a lengthy and costly investigation'

Not in the public Interest is the term usually bandied about
The Royal Comission...and there will be one...will have strict guidelines on what questions to ask

And, more importantly - what questions Not to ask.
#don'tevengothere

 

[Jebus_lives]

Not in the public Interest is the term usually bandied about
The Royal Comission...and there will be one...will have strict guidelines on what questions to ask

And, more importantly - what questions Not to ask.
#don'tevengothere

No doubt