Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[grandjoeblue]

Already expecting some scare stories from the media on Tuesday or Wednesday when the figures are a bit higher after the bank holiday.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Come on Bruce.

The Governments primary interest should be protecting its own citizens, same goes for the EU and their member states.

There’s no “hoarding”, all available doses are being used to save the lives of British people. The reality is if those doses were split among all of the European states the impact on the virus would be negligible in every country as it would cover less than 10% of the total population, this isn’t a case of we have hundreds of millions of doses just sat in a warehouse while Boris sits in a big chair stroking his white cat.

Because if everyone acted as the UK and US have done then the world would be in a sorry state. Indeed, so dire is the situation in India at the moment that their government is limiting the exporting of vaccines, and they're the biggest supplier in the world. That's all okay though according to your logic, just as it would be if the EU stopped exporting any from within the EU? Indeed, the Serum Institute has already complained of raw material shortages to make vaccines because the US is keeping all domestic supplies to itself.

The reality is that the UK imports a whole lot of vaccines and exports bugger all, which is a strategy that has worked very well for the UK providing everyone else plays ball, but when other countries look at a country that is gloating about its great vaccine success while doing nothing to help others then the willingness to play ball is going to dry up very quickly. For Pete et al to then complain that it's the EU that isn't doing free trade is utterly absurd. The very nature of free trade is imports and exports.

 

[peteblue]

Because if everyone acted as the UK and US have done then the world would be in a sorry state. Indeed, so dire is the situation in India at the moment that their government is limiting the exporting of vaccines, and they're the biggest supplier in the world. That's all okay though according to your logic, just as it would be if the EU stopped exporting any from within the EU? Indeed, the Serum Institute has already complained of raw material shortages to make vaccines because the US is keeping all domestic supplies to itself.

The reality is that the UK imports a whole lot of vaccines and exports bugger all, which is a strategy that has worked very well for the UK providing everyone else plays ball, but when other countries look at a country that is gloating about its great vaccine success while doing nothing to help others then the willingness to play ball is going to dry up very quickly.

Bruce, the U.K. imports stuff it has purchased. It uses stuff it owns. It does not steal IPR, nor production facilities nor product owned by another country. Novavax, now manufacturing in the U.K., still refuse to sign a contract with the EU because of this behaviour and the treatment of AZ, trashing its product and reputation, demanding it gives them more while patently refusing to actually use it...I find it staggering you would defend them tbh while they do immeasurable harm to Europe’s people and reputation...If the EU and its 27 countries are so great and wonderful, why are the covid vaccines in use ones developed by USA and U.K. companies, why haven’t the EU set up massive production facilities to supply the 1 Billion doses they require. Why are they going cap in hand to ask the USA and India to provide U.K. developed product.....

 

[Brennan]

Because if everyone acted as the UK and US have done then the world would be in a sorry state. Indeed, so dire is the situation in India at the moment that their government is limiting the exporting of vaccines, and they're the biggest supplier in the world. That's all okay though according to your logic, just as it would be if the EU stopped exporting any from within the EU? Indeed, the Serum Institute has already complained of raw material shortages to make vaccines because the US is keeping all domestic supplies to itself.

The reality is that the UK imports a whole lot of vaccines and exports bugger all, which is a strategy that has worked very well for the UK providing everyone else plays ball, but when other countries look at a country that is gloating about its great vaccine success while doing nothing to help others then the willingness to play ball is going to dry up very quickly. For Pete et al to then complain that it's the EU that isn't doing free trade is utterly absurd. The very nature of free trade is imports and exports.

I can’t have a conversation with you on this if you’re going to post mistruths Bruce.

On the India situation, I’d have no issue with the Government there prioritising vaccine production for its own citizens over exports, that’s their prerogative.

Generally I’d say we are relatively aligned on politics but I can’t get on board with you on this one. I broadly think the current government are a joke, but on vaccines their plan is appropriate given the mess our country was in over the winter.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I can’t have a conversation with you on this if you’re going to post mistruths Bruce.

Generally I’d say we are relatively aligned on politics but I can’t get on board with you on this one.

On the India situation, I’d have no issue with the Government there prioritising vaccine production for its own citizens over exports, that’s their prerogative.

What has the UK government done to help others? It's well established that no vaccines have left these shores to go anywhere else.

Bruce, the U.K. imports stuff it has purchased. It uses stuff it owns. It does not steal IPR, nor production facilities nor product owned by another country. Novavax, now manufacturing in the U.K., still refuse to sign a contract with the EU because of this behaviour and the treatment of AZ, trashing its product and reputation, demanding it gives them more while patently refusing to actually use it...I find it staggering you would defend them tbh while they do immeasurable harm to Europe’s people and reputation...If the EU and its 27 countries are so great and wonderful, why are the covid vaccines in use ones developed by USA and U.K. companies, why haven’t the EU set up massive production facilities to supply the 1 Billion doses they require. Why are they going cap in hand to ask the USA and India to provide U.K. developed product.....

Novovax bought a large vaccine production facility outside of Prague last summer Pete.

Novavax Expands Large-Scale Global Manufacturing Capacity | Novavax Inc. - IR Site

ir.novavax.com

The problem they're having in signing the contract and putting such facilities to use is because they're struggling to source the materials necessary to actually make the vaccines and fulfill the contract. Unlike AZ they're not charlatans who will sign a contract knowing full well they won't be able to honour it.

 

[roydo]

What has the UK government done to help others? It's well established that no vaccines have left these shores to go anywhere else.

I havnt a clue what has or hasnt been exported, nor a clue why. But isnt the AZ vax manufactured in loads of places, across the world? The AZ vax that the Govt totally cleared the decks for to get perfected here?

 

[Brennan]

What has the UK government done to help others? It's well established that no vaccines have left these shores to go anywhere else.

Novovax bought a large vaccine production facility outside of Prague last summer Pete.

Novavax Expands Large-Scale Global Manufacturing Capacity | Novavax Inc. - IR Site

ir.novavax.com

The problem they're having in signing the contract and putting such facilities to use is because they're struggling to source the materials necessary to actually make the vaccines and fulfill the contract. Unlike AZ they're not charlatans who will sign a contract knowing full well they won't be able to honour it.

They’ve donated hundreds of millions to Covax, as an immediate example.

I’m not saying they’re acting in a saintly fashion, but they are not doing “nothing”.

There’s also an argument to be made that without the early push with AZ from the UK government that we would be a few months down the line with tens of millions less doses globally. Whether they are going in the arms of British citizens or citizens of any other country surely that is a positive thing.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I havnt a clue what has or hasnt been exported, nor a clue why. But isnt the AZ vax manufactured in loads of places, across the world? The AZ vax that the Govt totally cleared the decks for to get perfected here?

That's the thing though. In Pete land the UK saying to AZ that any vaccines made here have to stay here is fine, but countries saying likewise for vaccines made on their turf is anti-free trade. With hindsight, I'm sure the Commission wishes they'd have been as self-centered as the UK on this so that AZ were actually held to account for their actions.

 

[Mrk]

The whole "we've exported XX vaccines and you've only exported XX" is utter nonsense - countries export nothing, companies do - unless we're suggesting that everything produced in a country by a private company automatically becomes the property of that country? Sounds a bit totalitarian to me.

 

[peteblue]

What has the UK government done to help others? It's well established that no vaccines have left these shores to go anywhere else.

Novovax bought a large vaccine production facility outside of Prague last summer Pete.

Novavax Expands Large-Scale Global Manufacturing Capacity | Novavax Inc. - IR Site

ir.novavax.com

The problem they're having in signing the contract and putting such facilities to use is because they're struggling to source the materials necessary to actually make the vaccines and fulfill the contract. Unlike AZ they're not charlatans who will sign a contract knowing full well they won't be able to honour it.

Of course Bruce, that’s why Novavax haven’t signed. They are struggling to source materials. I assume the same materials that they are currently manufacturing vaccine with within the U.K.. If I were Novavax I would put any commercial deal with the EU on hold and I would keep my IPR away from their clutches. Eventually, when the EU settles down and stops behaving like a spoilt child, I would do a deal, but with every proviso and get out clause imaginable and I would charge the highest of prices with no negotiation....

 

[peteblue]

The whole "we've exported XX vaccines and you've only exported XX" is utter nonsense - countries export nothing, companies do - unless we're suggesting that everything produced in a country by a private company automatically becomes the property of that country? Sounds a bit totalitarian to me.

That’s the EUSSR for you.....

 

[peteblue]

That's the thing though. In Pete land the UK saying to AZ that any vaccines made here have to stay here is fine, but countries saying likewise for vaccines made on their turf is anti-free trade. With hindsight, I'm sure the Commission wishes they'd have been as self-centered as the UK on this so that AZ were actually held to account for their actions.

You’ve lost the plot on this mate. Only the EU are seeking to undermine commercial deals. As has been pointed out many times, the EU own nothing, the companies do, but the EU are ripping up commercial law and their own reputation to protect the jobs of VDL and Macron.....

 

[Bruce Wayne]

They’ve donated hundreds of millions to Covax, as an immediate example.

I’m not saying they’re acting in a saintly fashion, but they are not doing “nothing”.

There’s also an argument to be made that without the early push with AZ from the UK government that we would be a few months down the line with tens of millions less doses globally. Whether they are going in the arms of British citizens or citizens of any other country surely that is a positive thing.

They've done what every G7 nation has done. Germany has pledged €1.2 billion to Covax, for instance. Similarly with the vaccines. There were dozens of projects around the world to develop a vaccine, all of which will have received substantial support from their national governments. I think this article from last year sums it up though

U.S. Likely to Get Sanofi Vaccine First If It Succeeds

Americans will likely get Sanofi’s Covid-19 vaccine before the rest of the world if the French pharmaceutical giant can successfully deliver one.

www.bloomberg.com

While French President Emmanuel Macron and German Chancellor Angela Merkel spearheaded an $8 billion fund drive to support equitable distribution, others have raised the prospect of a pecking order based on national support for research. Supplies of an experimental shot from the University of Oxford will be prioritized for the U.K. before other parts of the world, according to Pascal Soriot, CEO of AstraZeneca Plc, which will make the vaccine.

 

[peteblue]

I havnt a clue what has or hasnt been exported, nor a clue why. But isnt the AZ vax manufactured in loads of places, across the world? The AZ vax that the Govt totally cleared the decks for to get perfected here?

The AZ will eventually be manufactured around the world for the benefit of billions of poorer people, while the expensive vaccines from the EU will be sold for the benefit of the vaccine manufacturers....

 

[PaulPowersTash]

That's the thing though. In Pete land the UK saying to AZ that any vaccines made here have to stay here is fine, but countries saying likewise for vaccines made on their turf is anti-free trade. With hindsight, I'm sure the Commission wishes they'd have been as self-centered as the UK on this so that AZ were actually held to account for their actions.

So why haven't the EU gone legal on AZ Bruce?