Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[tsubaki]

I'm not saying it's perfect. The Pfizer jab is much better for the oldies after the second jab. That's never been the question though.

It's whether giving, say 10m one jab is better than giving 5m 2 jabs. The 10m given 1 jab are at a much reduced risk of getting severe covid. On the other hand 5m have received no jab and are at high risk of getting severe covid. Each new data report that is produced is positive to the effectiveness of one jab, even with the Pfizer vaccine.

That is an overly simplistic argument though - the 10 million aren’t solely dependent on the vaccine for protection against it (we’ve got lockdowns, social distancing, masks etc) and it assumes the protection for the 10 million lasts long enough for it to be a worthwhile trade off with not having 5 million people properly protected (in line with how the vaccine was authorised, and is meant to be used). If by ten or twelve weeks the 10 million have very little or no protection, then as a policy it’s surely failed compared to the alternative.

This vaccination programme could, if they’d not done this, been even more world leading. It is still largely fantastic, but as I’ve said ad infinitum this decision - made in the way it was and for the reasons it was - is something that people really should be concerned about.

 

[BlueToff]

Yet, the stats remained roughly flat from from when hospitality re opened last year on the 4th July, until the schools and uni`s re opened ?

Schools are Uni`s are what turbo charged things, not hospitality.

And the weather changed back and respiratory illnesses thrive in those seasonal changes

 

[BlueToff]

That is an overly simplistic argument though - the 10 million aren’t solely dependent on the vaccine for protection against it (we’ve got lockdowns, social distancing, masks etc) and it assumes the protection for the 10 million lasts long enough for it to be a worthwhile trade off with not having 5 million people properly protected (in line with how the vaccine was authorised, and is meant to be used). If by ten or twelve weeks the 10 million have very little or no protection, then as a policy it’s surely failed compared to the alternative.

This vaccination programme could, if they’d not done this, been even more world leading. It is still largely fantastic, but as I’ve said ad infinitum this decision - made in the way it was and for the reasons it was - is something that people really should be concerned about.

It was made in the way it was so we can get out lockdown quicker.

Most areas, my own included, haqve been in tier 3 or full lockdown since the end of October. It'll be 5.5 months by the time April 12th rolls around.

 

[peteblue]

I don't think that there is any specific right or wrong at this stage.
It's not a game, although from some of the UK media you would think otherwise.
Indeed, if it was a game, OK, even if UK appear to be winning, there is a long way to go, even to half time.

There is no ‘winning’ only losing. The U.K. has lost a lot of people to this virus, but thankfully at this particular time this seems to be improving because it is hoped that our approach to vaccinations coupled with lockdowns is giving good results. Our politicians have not been consistent enough for my liking but at this particular moment in time I prefer what they are doing, in England, Scotland, Wales and NI, than what I see from across the channel.

I remember from years ago when interviewing people for roles and I would ask them to tell me their weaknesses. This was a matter of truth test. Invariably the smarmy dishonest ones would say things like, I’m a perfectionist or I work too hard or some other rubbish designed to portray a ’weakness’ as really a strength. I was reminded of this today by reading about Merkel continuing her mea culpa by saying that they needed to be more flexible and not so much a perfectionist. Trying to apologise but not showing she was at fault in any way. Then I read Macron stating that in respect of inoculations they will catch up with the U.K. in a few weeks, as the U.K. is dependent upon ‘our’ vaccines, as if France even had anything to do with it.

I have little respect for politicians at the best of times, but I am disgusted at their failures in all of this....

 

[tsubaki]

It was made in the way it was so we can get out lockdown quicker.

Most areas, my own included, haqve been in tier 3 or full lockdown since the end of October. It'll be 5.5 months by the time April 12th rolls around.

Hope it isn’t that, but if it was then the government really needs to be keelhauled.

 

[BlueToff]

Hope it isn’t that, but if it was then the government really needs to be keelhauled.

Well of course it's that?

The quicker more people have more protection then the sooner, in theory, that the virus has less opportunity to spread or have any real effect on the vast majority of people if they do get infected, which reduces the risk of dangerous variants and therefore allows some form of normality to resume.

Ultimately the entire vaccination programme across the globe has the aim of ending this thing (lockdown) as soon as possible.

 

[BlueToff]

er - that was why the Israelis didn’t do that (either in that test or in their own programme)? we’ve also not got vaccine shortages or scarce resources?

But we did/do have a 70m population to vaccinate and - as everyone likes pointing out - one of the highest death rates in the world (or the actual highest per-100k or whatever).

 

[sbbefc]

Have a feeling that we'll be in a similar situation in August /Sept. Need herd immunity World wide to get it suppressed and we're way off that. Probably not even possible. It'll be a constant battle vs variants and updating the vaccine. Think the best we can do is once most people have been inoculated here we try and keep a lid on it like NZ. No foreign travel. Just can't see that happening.

 

[grandjoeblue]

Have a feeling that we'll be in a similar situation in August /Sept. Need herd immunity World wide to get it suppressed and we're way off that. Probably not even possible. It'll be a constant battle vs variants and updating the vaccine. Think the best we can do is once most people have been inoculated here we try and keep a lid on it like NZ. No foreign travel. Just can't see that happening.

NZ situation would not work here. We also don't need it to.

The fact is the vaccination works against all variants, we are in a different situation to last summer where we had zero protection.

 

[grandjoeblue]

It was made in the way it was so we can get out lockdown quicker.

Most areas, my own included, haqve been in tier 3 or full lockdown since the end of October. It'll be 5.5 months by the time April 12th rolls around.

Some areas of the UK have had the longest lockdowns in history. I believe parts of Manchester have only been open for less than 4 weeks in the last year.

 

[tsubaki]

But we did/do have a 70m population to vaccinate and - as everyone likes pointing out - one of the highest death rates in the world (or the actual highest per-100k or whatever).

We did, but the bulk of the prevention / death reduction caused by vaccination will come from the first 15 or 20 million, which we’ve mostly done now (and could have almost completely done).

 

[Barnfred 55]

That is an overly simplistic argument though - the 10 million aren’t solely dependent on the vaccine for protection against it (we’ve got lockdowns, social distancing, masks etc) and it assumes the protection for the 10 million lasts long enough for it to be a worthwhile trade off with not having 5 million people properly protected (in line with how the vaccine was authorised, and is meant to be used). If by ten or twelve weeks the 10 million have very little or no protection, then as a policy it’s surely failed compared to the alternative.

This vaccination programme could, if they’d not done this, been even more world leading. It is still largely fantastic, but as I’ve said ad infinitum this decision - made in the way it was and for the reasons it was - is something that people really should be concerned about.

I know you've argued this from the start and I fully respect your right to an opinion. But the longer this goes the more the evidence is proving the Government policy was right, and all your if's and may's, and could's are just that.

It was a calculated risk, or in your words, a gamble. I don't think anybody is denying that. But so far it's paying off and now the rest of the world has evidence to work on (which I admit we didn't) and other countries should at least consider doing similar. If not 12 week, maybe 10 or 8, just a policy to get more people their first jab quicker.

It's now coming to the point where we changed tact from 3 weeks to 12, and those Pfizer people will be getting their second jabs. To the best of my knowledge, there's been few if any cases of anybody dying from only having 1 jab. Those nursing home outbreaks all occurred within the first 3 weeks f vaccination.

 

[Tipp blue]

Have a feeling that we'll be in a similar situation in August /Sept. Need herd immunity World wide to get it suppressed and we're way off that. Probably not even possible. It'll be a constant battle vs variants and updating the vaccine. Think the best we can do is once most people have been inoculated here we try and keep a lid on it like NZ. No foreign travel. Just can't see that happening.

Forget about NZ they can do what they did based on geography they are 2000 miles from their nearest neighbour, for context that's further than london is from Moscow, make no mistake NZ is not going to be back to normal until borders are open which will make it one of the last countries in the world back to normal.

 

[BlueToff]

Have a feeling that we'll be in a similar situation in August /Sept. Need herd immunity World wide to get it suppressed and we're way off that. Probably not even possible. It'll be a constant battle vs variants and updating the vaccine. Think the best we can do is once most people have been inoculated here we try and keep a lid on it like NZ. No foreign travel. Just can't see that happening.

We'll never suppress it fully. That's not the point.

It's here to stay, and it's not sustainable not to have foreign travel - especially as a tiny island that imports tons and tons of its goods.

The amount of paperwork you currently have to go through to land at a UK airport as it is, then you have to fork out to pay £170 per-person for the covid tests to be sent to your house - and that's only if you've come from a country that isn't 'red listed' (I have a colleague who has just returned from a 14-month project in Thailand and is now at home isolating). If the country is red listed, you're in a hotel.

 

[BlueToff]

Forget about NZ they can do what they did based on geography they are 2000 miles from their nearest neighbour, for context that's further than london is from Moscow, make no mistake NZ is not going to be back to normal until borders are open which will make it one of the last countries in the world back to normal.

1,340 miles from Auckland to Sydney (just over 2000km) but the point stands.

It's also not a travel or trade hub, like pretty much all of Western Europe is.