Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

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We'll never suppress it fully. That's not the point.

It's here to stay, and it's not sustainable not to have foreign travel - especially as a tiny island that imports tons and tons of its goods.

The amount of paperwork you currently have to go through to land at a UK airport as it is, then you have to fork out to pay £170 per-person for the covid tests to be sent to your house - and that's only if you've come from a country that isn't 'red listed' (I have a colleague who has just returned from a 14-month project in Thailand and is now at home isolating). If the country is red listed, you're in a hotel.
Yeah, wasn't suggesting that we actually do what NZ does. Practically it would be impossible. But that's the only way to get back to full normality (excluding foreign holidays) . I think the lowering of restrictions planned for the 21 June is a pipe dream. As long as we have large populations, like Brazil, allowing the virus to thrive we're going to be battling against variations with 24/7 vaccinations ongoing for a long long time. Just think it'll still get through even with the measures you mention in place. Hope I'm wrong.
 
Hope it isn’t that, but if it was then the government really needs to be keelhauled.
I don't think there's anybody (apart from you apparently)who thought the 12 week vaccine policy was driven by anything other than opening up the economy earlier. The same with getting the old and vulnerable vaccinated first.

And neither do I see anything wrong with that. The only victims in this pandemic are not just the ones who lost their lives or lost loved ones. Millions have lost their jobs, thousands have lost business's and livelihoods, millions have had their health effected, both physically and mentally, in countless ways by the lockdown.
 
Yeah, wasn't suggesting that we actually do what NZ does. Practically it would be impossible. But that's the only way to get back to full normality (excluding foreign holidays) . I think the lowering of restrictions planned for the 21 June is a pipe dream. As long as we have large populations, like Brazil, allowing the virus to thrive we're going to be battling against variations with 24/7 vaccinations ongoing for a long long time. Just think it'll still get through even with the measures you mention in place. Hope I'm wrong.
Why though?

Keep in mind that foreign travel isn't probably going to be allowed until the end of June/early July?

As it stands, we're on course, in the UK. And then foreign travel will probably be the last thing to come back, but with certain quarantine restrictions in place (probably you have to pay for testing etc like it is now, and/or go through a period of isolation).
 
We did, but the bulk of the prevention / death reduction caused by vaccination will come from the first 15 or 20 million, which we’ve mostly done now (and could have almost completely done).
But when it comes to getting stuff opened up, we need as many done as quickly as possible.

The UK's approach (a gamble it may be) looks set, hopefully (a long way to go still) achieve both.
 
@tsubaki, the Czech health ministry have to date been respecting the dosage recommendations, but there's a general clamour to open things up again in a fortnight, so the plan now is to scrap the dosage recommendations and give as many people as possible the first dose so that when things open up things will be hunky dory. What could possibly go wrong? :hayee:

As an aside, I went for a cycle this morning and the roads were absolutely heaving. If we're locked down then I'm a monkey's uncle.
 
@tsubaki, the Czech health ministry have to date been respecting the dosage recommendations, but there's a general clamour to open things up again in a fortnight, so the plan now is to scrap the dosage recommendations and give as many people as possible the first dose so that when things open up things will be hunky dory. What could possibly go wrong? :hayee:

As an aside, I went for a cycle this morning and the roads were absolutely heaving. If we're locked down then I'm a monkey's uncle.
tbf Bruce, it's been the same way for 2 months, and cases have still been going down.

From today you can go meet in a group of 6/up to 2 households, and it's the first day of the Easter holidays, and the weather is lovely. No surprise to see it busy.
 
Worth a read.


Lockdowns are the equivalent of a car airbag, and only bad drivers need to keep activating them​

Why Boris Johnson’s insistence that the UK’s unlocking is “irreversible” is a risky one.

telling trend is evident in the data on injuries and deaths from road traffic accidents. Whenever a compulsory safety measure is introduced – the wearing of seat belts in cars, or helmets on motorcycles – there is an initial drop in casualties. Yet over time, the statistics worsen again. This reflects the unconscious relationship between perceptions of safety and risk. A protective factor such as a seat belt creates a feeling of relative security. This leads to a tendency to take more risks with speed, for example, or with maintaining a safe braking distance from other vehicles.

According to an analysis by the Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine (CEBM) at Oxford University, in the month leading up to the first English national lockdown, the number of Covid cases in the UK was doubling every three days. On 23 February 2020 there were fewer than a dozen hospitalised patients; by 23 March that had grown to 12,000. Bad enough, but consider what would have happened over the ensuing fortnight. Given the three-day doubling time, by early April the number of Covid patients requiring hospital care would have exceeded the total NHS beds of any type in the entire country.

The first English national lockdown was the pandemic equivalent of an airbag detonated in a genuine emergency. It abruptly interrupted innumerable chains of Covid transmission. Having deployed it, of course, it became impossible to appreciate quite how bad things would otherwise have been. What the CEBM analysis shows is that the “light-touch” measures recommended prior to lockdown – repeated hand washing, stopping all unnecessary social contact – made little difference to the doubling time. The UK was a couple of weeks away from a crisis the like of which we have never seen. Had we not triggered the lockdown airbag, the consequences would have been beyond most people’s imaginations.

How much, though, did the experience of surviving that first, potentially cataclysmic car crash affect our politicians’ perceptions of safety and risk? During the summer lull, case numbers fell to modest levels. Was it that much easier for Boris Johnson to prefer the siren voices of the libertarian sceptics arguing that the pandemic was all but done, and dismiss those experts urging continued downward pressure to mitigate the inevitable autumn second wave? Did Eat Out to Help Out appear a risk worth taking? And when warned of the danger of mutations arising in an environment of continuing high levels of viral replication, was that spectre also more readily overlooked? In short, were those charged with steering the country through the pandemic behaving in an unconsciously more reckless way because of the sense of security that an emergency backstop brings?

The four-week November lockdown-lite can be seen merely as a heavy stamp on the brakes, intended – ultimately unsuccessfully – to allow Johnson to fulfil his promise of a Christmas social spree. But the lockdown imposed on 5 January this year was the real thing: a second emergency detonation of the airbag that has once again prevented even greater harm. Rely on the airbag more than once, though, and even the most foolhardy motorist must acknowledge that there is something fundamentally wrong with the way they’re driving.

This explains both the slow speed and the abundance of caution characterising the government approach to the coming few months. The five-week intervals between stages of easing the lockdown allows plenty of time for adverse trends in case data to emerge and be acted upon. The repeated notes of caution from ministers suggests they have finally appreciated the unpredictability inherent in dynamic biological systems. Yet Johnson has still declared that this lockdown easing is to be irreversible. The airbag will never be required again.

Johnson will have been told that a third wave is to be expected. His confidence must be attributable to the new safety feature currently being retrofitted to the UK vehicle: vaccine-induced immunity. If the vast majority of those aged 18 and over have been immunised by the autumn, then the third wave will fail to take off among the adult population, in whom Covid causes its most noticeable havoc.

There are two potential risks. The first is the emergence of variants with resistance to the immunity engendered by the current vaccines. There has been a lot of attention paid to the prospect of importing such strains from abroad, hence the belated and imperfect hotel quarantine scheme. But mutations are as likely to arise at home. The presence of large numbers of vaccinated individuals while infection rates remain high is a potentially disastrous combination, creating the evolutionary conditions for vaccine-escape mutations. To a large degree we simply have to hope, but the chances can be minimised by continuing to bear down hard on case numbers while the vaccine roll-out proceeds. The libertarians have once again begun clamouring for a swifter easing of lockdown, even though we’re still confirming over 5,000 new cases each day. It is imperative that this time Johnson resists.

The other risk is from unequal immunisation levels between different social and ethnic groups. Vaccine uptake currently approaches 95 per cent in the most affluent areas (which are also the least ethnically diverse), compared with around 70 per cent in deprived communities with high BAME populations. Unless urgent action is taken, there will be localised epidemics next autumn among the very communities most at risk of serious disease and death. These may not constitute the nationwide disaster we faced in March 2020 or January of this year, but they will perpetuate the disproportionate toll that Covid has exacted as a result of the egregious inequalities we have allowed to become endemic in our society.
 
All getting a bit grubby on the profit front now...I don’t suppose EU threats of stealing development and production facilities helped either.....

“Pfizer has admitted it may ditch the German biotech firm that made its breakthrough coronavirus jab as it looks to drastically expand its vaccine business.
The US drugs giant has revealed plans to use gene-based technology, harnessed by BioNTech, to tackle other viruses and illnesses beyond Covid.
Pfizer's boss claimed the firm had learned enough about mRNA vaccines to go solo, adding that it no longer 'needs to work with BioNTech' beyond the end of the companies' flu jab agreement in July”
 
Why though?

Keep in mind that foreign travel isn't probably going to be allowed until the end of June/early July?

As it stands, we're on course, in the UK. And then foreign travel will probably be the last thing to come back, but with certain quarantine restrictions in place (probably you have to pay for testing etc like it is now, and/or go through a period of isolation).
I just don't think they're going to allow night clubs to open, full capacity football stadiums etc. Deaths are down, which is obviously great but the NHS needs a huge buffer to get through the massive backlog of people waiting for other treatment. If we completely open up as normal, given how quickly the virus spreads, will still see some hospitalisations . We don't have all the data, but hopefully these will be manageable, but I think July will be too soon. I would to be love to be proven wrong.
 
I just don't think they're going to allow night clubs to open, full capacity football stadiums etc. Deaths are down, which is obviously great but the NHS needs a huge buffer to get through the massive backlog of people waiting for other treatment. If we completely open up as normal, given how quickly the virus spreads, will still see some hospitalisations . We don't have all the data, but hopefully these will be manageable, but I think July will be too soon. I would to be love to be proven wrong.

Isn't it June 21 when nightclubs open?
 
All getting a bit grubby on the profit front now...I don’t suppose EU threats of stealing development and production facilities helped either.....

“Pfizer has admitted it may ditch the German biotech firm that made its breakthrough coronavirus jab as it looks to drastically expand its vaccine business.
The US drugs giant has revealed plans to use gene-based technology, harnessed by BioNTech, to tackle other viruses and illnesses beyond Covid.
Pfizer's boss claimed the firm had learned enough about mRNA vaccines to go solo, adding that it no longer 'needs to work with BioNTech' beyond the end of the companies' flu jab agreement in July”
Classy.
 
I just don't think they're going to allow night clubs to open, full capacity football stadiums etc. Deaths are down, which is obviously great but the NHS needs a huge buffer to get through the massive backlog of people waiting for other treatment. If we completely open up as normal, given how quickly the virus spreads, will still see some hospitalisations . We don't have all the data, but hopefully these will be manageable, but I think July will be too soon. I would to be love to be proven wrong.

Spain held a trial 5000 outdoor gig at the weekend.
 
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