Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

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Was allowed to go myself within minutes as I was in company...


Think you have accept some people simply don't care, draw your arbitrary line and move on from them, that's what I do at least...
Why with you does everything have to be black and white? No middle ground. No shades of grey.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with saying that the UK and other nations such as France and Denmark should be following the guidance of Pfizer and going with 3 weeks of spacing.

There is also however nothing wrong with saying the logic - which has been explained by the CMOs - is reasoned in why they are extending or have extended the spacing. It is, as Whitty put it "a calculated risk" - but at this stage, the entire world is having to take a calculated risk or we'll be stuck in this cycle forever. People bang on about Aus and NZ's success - and it is success in dealing with this - but they are placing entire regions into quarantine for even one case. That is in no sense 'normality' and it is in no sense sustainable. Countries relying on Pfizer right now are taking a risk because they can't get as many doses to people as quickly as they'd like, so there's still going to be a risk of the virus spreading through the population, and continuing to mutate that way.

It is also fair to say that there has been plenty of warnings against the extended spacing on Pfizer. And it is also fair to say that so far, there is no evidence of it not working to the effect that those warnings claim.

People do care. They just can see things from different perspectives and don't automatically assume that people are evil or don't care, but are doing something to try and see if it's going to help us out of this quicker. It might backfire spectacularly, but so far it hasn't. Let's hope it doesn't and the risk pays off. Not because of some race to be first, but because it'd save lives and ultimately get the virus suppressed quicker because more people would have that initial protection from falling seriously ill from this, and that stops the NHS being overrun.

Ideally, if they're going to keep doing this for now, then I'd like to see, once we have the Moderna vaccines on order and the AZ continues to ramp up, and then J&J and Novavax (which there is 60m of secured) come along in a few months, the spacing reduced back down to less time. That would also coincide with the summer months and easing of restrictions so would definitely make sense.

But back to the initial point, people do care, they just understand reasons why sometimes, you have to take risks. If there is one country in the world that absolutely needed to take a risk to try and get vaccines out to as many people as possible, then it was the UK. There's no easy solution.
 
In reality someone does have to test expanding the dosing window of the Pfizer/Moderna vax from 21 days to a wider gap, not only would it mean populations get some immunity (even if not full) quicker but we need data on whether a delay improves/reduces efficiency.

I’d just be a lot more comfortable with the ethics of it being done under the umbrella of a large trial with informed consent of the participants.

so would I
 
Why with you does everything have to be black and white? No middle ground. No shades of grey.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with saying that the UK and other nations such as France and Denmark should be following the guidance of Pfizer and going with 3 weeks of spacing.

There is also however nothing wrong with saying the logic - which has been explained by the CMOs - is reasoned in why they are extending or have extended the spacing. It is, as Whitty put it "a calculated risk" - but at this stage, the entire world is having to take a calculated risk or we'll be stuck in this cycle forever. People bang on about Aus and NZ's success - and it is success in dealing with this - but they are placing entire regions into quarantine for even one case. That is in no sense 'normality' and it is in no sense sustainable. Countries relying on Pfizer right now are taking a risk because they can't get as many doses to people as quickly as they'd like, so there's still going to be a risk of the virus spreading through the population, and continuing to mutate that way.

It is also fair to say that there has been plenty of warnings against the extended spacing on Pfizer. And it is also fair to say that so far, there is no evidence of it not working to the effect that those warnings claim.

People do care. They just can see things from different perspectives and don't automatically assume that people are evil or don't care, but are doing something to try and see if it's going to help us out of this quicker. It might backfire spectacularly, but so far it hasn't. Let's hope it doesn't and the risk pays off. Not because of some race to be first, but because it'd save lives and ultimately get the virus suppressed quicker because more people would have that initial protection from falling seriously ill from this, and that stops the NHS being overrun.

Ideally, if they're going to keep doing this for now, then I'd like to see, once we have the Moderna vaccines on order and the AZ continues to ramp up, and then J&J and Novavax (which there is 60m of secured) come along in a few months, the spacing reduced back down to less time. That would also coincide with the summer months and easing of restrictions so would definitely make sense.

But back to the initial point, people do care, they just understand reasons why sometimes, you have to take risks. If there is one country in the world that absolutely needed to take a risk to try and get vaccines out to as many people as possible, then it was the UK. There's no easy solution.

With respect, I think it’s fairly obvious that a load of people actually do not care.

Take this virus for example; we’ve had loads of prominent politicians, journalists and members of the commentariat repeatedly call for things that would kill large numbers of people. Cretinry’s Toby Young has spent the entire pandemic in one giant parade of offensive wrongness, including opposing the first lockdown because the cost was greater than old people were worth.

We see the same lack of concern into what decisions will actually do to people with Grenfell and it’s aftermath, with Windrush and with pretty much any multiple fatality disaster you can think of in British history.
 
Hospital figures - 843 deaths were announced today, up 52 on yesterday and down 282 on last Wednesday. 707 deaths were in English hospitals, down 60 on yesterday and down 267 on last week. The 7 day rolling average falls to 778.14

All settings - for the 28 day cut off, 1322 deaths were announced today, down 127 on yesterday and down 403 on last Wednesday. The 7 day rolling average falls to an even 1064

For the 60 day cut off, 1506 deaths were announced today, down 107 on yesterday and down 397 on last Wednesday. The 7 day rolling average falls to 1171.71
 
Ey?

Right, I can't get on board with this argument whatsoever, it's boring and just incorrect.

He decided to do a nice thing. Good on him. He wanted to try and help in his own way. It caught on in the middle of something we have never seen in our lifetime and likely will never see again. Not even Tom was here for the last pandemic.

People decided to donate, and that money went to the NHS Charities Trust. It did not 'fund the NHS', the government weren't ringing round old people's homes to get anybody who could still walk to do laps of the garden so they could buy some ventilators.

He was only 'hawked around' because back in March it was frankly one of the only good news stories there was. And it was a story. It was amazing what he did and how people decided to support him in their own way.

As for 'ultimately leading to his demise'. He was 100. I don't think him walking those laps in his garden finished him off.

Do I think clapping for the bloke at 6pm is gonna make a bit of difference? No I don't, but if people want to clap, let them clap.

The NHS wasn't going to run out of money if Captain Tom hadn't have walked in the garden. He didn't 'need' to do anything. He chose to do it, and there's a big difference.
Fine if people want to clap that's up to them but it cuts both ways , i for one will not be clapping as for me the whole thing has been hijacked by Boris And 6his gang as a sideshow to take the spotlight off themselves.

RIP Tom and condolences to his family
 
With respect, I think it’s fairly obvious that a load of people actually do not care.

Take this virus for example; we’ve had loads of prominent politicians, journalists and members of the commentariat repeatedly call for things that would kill large numbers of people. Cretinry’s Toby Young has spent the entire pandemic in one giant parade of offensive wrongness, including opposing the first lockdown because the cost was greater than old people were worth.

We see the same lack of concern into what decisions will actually do to people with Grenfell and it’s aftermath, with Windrush and with pretty much any multiple fatality disaster you can think of in British history.
They will stick the death toll into inquiry for years, state they are unable to talk about said inquiry in case they jeopardize said inquiry, and proclaim lesson will be learned...

In the meantime,



Mind you even the goats are insincere in Switzerland... Is that acceptable nationalism?:)
 
They will stick the death toll into inquiry for years, state they are unable to talk about said inquiry in case they jeopardize said inquiry, and proclaim lesson will be learned...

In the meantime,



Mind you even the goats are insincere in Switzerland... Is that acceptable nationalism?:)
in-switzerlands-they-had-brotherly-love-five-hundred-years-of-democracy-and-peace-and-what-did-that-produce-the-cuckoo-clock.jpg
 
Could it be possible/logical to say, if it's a 25-year-old healthy person getting the vaccine (and let's say it's Pfizer) then they wait 12 weeks? But if it's a 75-year-old getting it, they get it 3 weeks after?

I suppose the more vaccines become available, the easier it will be to reduce the time between doses.
Is that rhetorical or a genuine question? Either way, I don't know the answer. It would be ideal to tailor it to specific needs, but that will bring more issues.
 
How many people who have had a single dose have died through Covid ?......
There will be quite a few because we have given at least a dose to virtually everyone over 80.
People don't live forever. Will be unrelated but ant vax brigade and the experts on here will be all over it.
 
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