Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[degsy]

@cronullasharks ; got plenty of toilet paper mate?

 

[peteblue]

I think I’ve just entered into a contractual agreement to part ex it today funnily enough..... buying the Mrs a new car

I’ve heard that France has said it won’t go over 65mph and that the EU have put a block on the sale.....

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

That's fair enough, was a genuine question.

We have ordered them, but they haven't all arrived yet. Once the vulnerable groups are vaccinated then by all means but @ForeverBlue92 does also have a point.

But yeah, given a choice, I'd be sending vaccines to the African countries who have been ravaged by Ebola and now this for the last five years and trying to help them over anywhere else in the world.

In 2 months when the J&J and Novavax vaccines are hopefully up and running we should be in a much better position and so should the rest of Europe.

China will continue its strategy and add Sinovac and Sinopharm to its levers of influence in Africa. Large swathes of the continent are already economically tied/handcuffed to China and I have no doubt that they will use this opportunity to penetrate further, sadly.

Edit: Let's hope that the covax initiative grows and can deliver, this will be the best outcome for Africa IMO.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

African countries are turning to Russia, India, and China for Covid vaccines despite skepticism

As more African countries record the second wave of coronavirus infections, and some record novel and more infectious variants, African governments are turning toward Covid-19 vaccines produced by Russia, India, and China despite skepticism about some of these vaccines.

qz.com

 

[BlueToff]

Nope, and that is something that really must change (and should have changed after March's lockdown tbh) - eventually we are either going to be confronted with a new variety of this that the vaccines don't work on, or there is going to be a new pandemic disease.

To combat that we are going to need a system that can pick up new diseases very rapidly and put measures in place to contain them if they pose a risk - I'd even (for the next few years anyway) say that we should be encouraging people to get stay home and and report whenever they feel like they've got flu-like systems, the NHS / PHE will send someone round to their house, test and find out what it is.

If its normal flu then suitable advice, if its this then isolate (with support) track and trace. To do it properly will cost a couple of billion a year, but it will mean we never have to have a lockdown again, it will keep the extra testing capacity in use and will probably save a couple of thousand lives who would otherwise die of flu into the bargain.

If we don't set that up, theres nothing to prevent us going along this same ruinous route again.

Well all this is true but the virus has been proven to be in Europe in October 2019 and a cursory look at the deaths in the UK from Oct/Nov 2019 compared to Oct/Nov 2018 suggest that it was quite possibly here in late 2019 too - we just didn't know.

Now, China probably didn't know until going on for December time but they still looked to cover things up. You can talk about a new track and trace system all you want but 50% of this is on China and their cover up, and even the WHO didn't seem to realise the seriousness of it at first (though was that down to China's cover up?)

I honestly just don't see how your idea can work. There's so much more at play. Being able to take your kids to school, if you have a job where you can't work from home - and that's not just about finances, your job could be crucial to helping other people if you're a support worker or some such.

I agree with the principle and would like to see it attempted but I really don't know how it would be successfully implemented for 'flu-like symptoms'.

People get run down all the time and can feel like they have flu, but after a good kip can feel like there's nothing wrong with them at all.

 

[grandjoeblue]

Theres an article in the echo today about COVID outbreaks in the royal and aintree hospitals, quite an interesting read.

The only person I know who has died caught covid 3 days before she died in the royal. She was probably going to die anyway as she was very ill and had already been in the hospital for over 2 weeks but clearly hospital transmission is a major issue.

 

[tsubaki]

Well all this is true but the virus has been proven to be in Europe in October 2019 and a cursory look at the deaths in the UK from Oct/Nov 2019 compared to Oct/Nov 2018 suggest that it was quite possibly here in late 2019 too - we just didn't know.

Now, China probably didn't know until going on for December time but they still looked to cover things up. You can talk about a new track and trace system all you want but 50% of this is on China and their cover up, and even the WHO didn't seem to realise the seriousness of it at first (though was that down to China's cover up?)

I honestly just don't see how your idea can work. There's so much more at play. Being able to take your kids to school, if you have a job where you can't work from home - and that's not just about finances, your job could be crucial to helping other people if you're a support worker or some such.

I agree with the principle and would like to see it attempted but I really don't know how it would be successfully implemented for 'flu-like symptoms'.

People get run down all the time and can feel like they have flu, but after a good kip can feel like there's nothing wrong with them at all.

Well, the two things I’d say to that is that firstly, that delay (between it being here and China announcing it) is precisely why we (and the EU) need an effective system that can pick these things up. If we don’t, we are reliant on them being honest.

Secondly, if it’s going to be effective then we’re going to need it to be fast at picking these things up. We can do a lot of that by making sure the system is properly staffed, so that it can get to people ideally within an hour of their call - but it also means that we’ve got to get people into the habit of reporting it.

Yes, that might bring more sick days and inconvenience to the self employed - but we can cut that down as much as possible by having a rapid response, by properly supporting people when they do this and of course for business it will make these lockdowns less likely (as well as cutting down on their sickness, as these things aren’t then spread in the workplace).

 

[BlueToff]

Well, the two things I’d say to that is that firstly, that delay (between it being here and China announcing it) is precisely why we (and the EU) need an effective system that can pick these things up. If we don’t, we are reliant on them being honest.

Secondly, if it’s going to be effective then we’re going to need it to be fast at picking these things up. We can do a lot of that by making sure the system is properly staffed, so that it can get to people ideally within an hour of their call - but it also means that we’ve got to get people into the habit of reporting it.

Yes, that might bring more sick days and inconvenience to the self employed - but we can cut that down as much as possible by having a rapid response, by properly supporting people when they do this and of course for business it will make these lockdowns less likely (as well as cutting down on their sickness, as these things aren’t then spread in the workplace).

It's not really inconvenience as such as not really being able to run a business. The perfect example is hopsitality, where businesses have a pool of staff that, rightly or wrongly, are judged harshly if they just don't turn up to work, because it screws the whole thing up.

Even with a rapid response, it makes it tough for those business, even though I know that you shouldn't be going anywhere near service if your ill, people do because they're needed. And it's not exactly fair then on other staff who have to be called in last minute etc or the managers of said places (I know, I've been one when I was 18/19) to have to be sorting that out. Again, not saying it's right that people would be judged unfairly, but in those industries and trades they just are.

If you're ill you're ill but if you've got a sniffle and you're having to wait 2 hours to be told whether it's okay to go into work or not or to be able to take your kids to school or even go to the shop, I still think it would take a massive mentality shift for people to report it.

You say about lockdowns being less likely, but in my 25 years on the planet I have never known of any 'lockdowns' for illnesses. I remember panic over bird and swine flu but it was kept under control. This is, as far as I'm aware, the first example of a lockdown due to an illness in modern history? Why is it suddenly much more likely that these things will become common place? Pandemics don't happen every day, and the main thing is surely establishing why this pandemic happened, why China did what they did, and then establishing a better system in the west from there?

 

[edge]

Theres an article in the echo today about COVID outbreaks in the royal and aintree hospitals, quite an interesting read.

The only person I know who has died caught covid 3 days before she died in the royal. She was probably going to die anyway as she was very ill and had already been in the hospital for over 2 weeks but clearly hospital transmission is a major issue.

Same here know two people that have caught it in hospital in the last 2 weeks, both already very ill, one died other is going to in the coming days

 

[tsubaki]

It's not really inconvenience as such as not really being able to run a business. The perfect example is hopsitality, where businesses have a pool of staff that, rightly or wrongly, are judged harshly if they just don't turn up to work, because it screws the whole thing up.

Even with a rapid response, it makes it tough for those business, even though I know that you shouldn't be going anywhere near service if your ill, people do because they're needed. And it's not exactly fair then on other staff who have to be called in last minute etc or the managers of said places (I know, I've been one when I was 18/19) to have to be sorting that out. Again, not saying it's right that people would be judged unfairly, but in those industries and trades they just are.

If you're ill you're ill but if you've got a sniffle and you're having to wait 2 hours to be told whether it's okay to go into work or not or to be able to take your kids to school or even go to the shop, I still think it would take a massive mentality shift for people to report it.

You say about lockdowns being less likely, but in my 25 years on the planet I have never known of any 'lockdowns' for illnesses. I remember panic over bird and swine flu but it was kept under control. This is, as far as I'm aware, the first example of a lockdown due to an illness in modern history? Why is it suddenly much more likely that these things will become common place? Pandemics don't happen every day, and the main thing is surely establishing why this pandemic happened, why China did what they did, and then establishing a better system in the west from there?

Oh it will, but I'd hope these past twelve months (and a public education programme) would provide that shift in peoples' thinking. In terms of replacement staff, this (ironically) is one of those areas where gig-work would actually be useful (and be less likely to rip off those doing it).

As for lockdowns, they were a consequence of not being able to control this disease. We need a means by which we can start to do that, and that means being aware as quickly as possible that it exists and who is likely to have it.

 

[random]

One of the people at my work has tested positive for covid. So he went there in person to tell his boss !


Obviously the brains of the operation.........

 

[BlueToff]

Oh it will, but I'd hope these past twelve months (and a public education programme) would provide that shift in peoples' thinking. In terms of replacement staff, this (ironically) is one of those areas where gig-work would actually be useful (and be less likely to rip off those doing it).

As for lockdowns, they were a consequence of not being able to control this disease. We need a means by which we can start to do that, and that means being aware as quickly as possible that it exists and who is likely to have it.

I get your point i really do.

On 'gig work', again, as someone who has worked in those industries, you still have that quality issue - that drop off in service being risked if you get me. It isn't always as simple as some agency just being able to throw a person into a job - they need training up with certain things. In the service industry that can genuinely make or break a business if your staff aren't good enough.

See where i'm coming from?

But yeah, I do agree there needs to be something in place. I just don't really foresee another pandemic coming along any time soon given that this is the first one in what, 100 years? But obviously, better to have the systems in place ready to ensure the next one isn't as devastating if/when it comes.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

As a nation we have to look after ourselves first , which i get but we also need to be wary of the potential mutations that can develop in other areas of the world.

If we all work together we can eliminate the opportunities of this happening.

Unless we do effectively and literally close ourselves off from the rest of the world, we all need to be looking after ourselves in coordinated step, this virus is not some ledger or spread sheet with profits to be traded and monetarized by some algorithm

 

[tsubaki]

I get your point i really do.

On 'gig work', again, as someone who has worked in those industries, you still have that quality issue - that drop off in service being risked if you get me. It isn't always as simple as some agency just being able to throw a person into a job - they need training up with certain things. In the service industry that can genuinely make or break a business if your staff aren't good enough.

See where i'm coming from?

But yeah, I do agree there needs to be something in place. I just don't really foresee another pandemic coming along any time soon given that this is the first one in what, 100 years? But obviously, better to have the systems in place ready to ensure the next one isn't as devastating if/when it comes.

This one will be with us for years though, and there are disease outbreaks all the time across the world (the national risk register gives a figure of more than 30 over the past 25 years). None of them have been as transmissible as this, but in a world that is as interconnected as ours is now we've got to be self-reliant in terms of picking these things up. Of course there is a national security side to this as well; the amount of damage this has caused to the West in particular is huge and I am sure those who are on the other side have noticed that.

Plus of course there is the annual flu death rate, which for the past thirty years has been between 25000 and 60000 a year. (edit) We could get that down.

 

[WA Toffee]

Perth W.A. calls snap 5 day lockdown as hotel quarentine security guard calls in sick and tests positive with UK variant presumably caught off a person in quarentine.

Edit1; It gets worse, the cricket final will more than likely be canceled
Edit2; Elsewhere in Australia, another security guard has been sacked for 'inappropriate social distancing' with a female under quarentine restrictions

After 10 months without a single case, it was inevitible that we would finally get one. Great to see the Premier get on top of it straight away with an immediate 5 day lockdown, hopefully we can nip it in the bud and get back to normal next week.