Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[peteblue]

They have gone along, it seems, with an over-reach claimed by the AZ/Oxford vaccine makers that they have robust data on efficacy for over 65s - their own regulators dance to the Tory tune.

It's obvious now that the ERA have determined the AZ vaccine is not suitable for pver-65s (and I guess the US will follow suit).

who are the ERA ?.....

 

[jinkyali]

They have gone along, it seems, with an over-reach claimed by the AZ/Oxford vaccine makers that they have robust data on efficacy for over 65s - their own regulators dance to the Tory tune.

It's obvious now that the ERA have determined the AZ vaccine is not suitable for pver-65s (and I guess the US will follow suit).

So based on that, what about India?

 

[neil999]

It’s happening alright. I know a team of LA debt collectors that seldom meet with the public when they are actually in the office, and all have the option of working from home, as they have had for years tbh. The benefits of working for a LA. All have been given dates for injection.

OK mate

 

[LinekersLegs]

Bit concerning all this AZ supply and efficacy stuff. Had a quick look round gov.uk, and their clinical advice said that “Efficacy and safety data are currently limited in individuals ≥65 years of age (see sections 4.8 and 5.1).” And “The number of COVID-19 cases (2) in 660 participants ≥65 years old were too few to draw conclusions on efficacy.”

Link here - https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...d-19-vaccine-astrazeneca#clinical-particulars

So seems like data was too limited to draw firm conclusions, but seems unlikely immunity would drop off a cliff. Get the sense that a couple of German journalists have jumped the gun here and been a bit irresponsible, so waiting for a bit more substantiated info seems sensible.

I really don’t see how any journalist could in good conscience publish this type of claim without having either government/medical sources who were prepared to go on the record or a published medical study.

The interpretation of the latter have been bad enough without amplifying what is effectively gossip.

I very much doubt the 8% is true, most of the scientists I read were not expecting a drop off in efficency based on age and it hadn’t happened in the smaller studies, but even if it does turn out to be true you need more concrete info before you publish something this damaging to public confidence.

 

[BlueToff]

It’s happening alright. I know a team of LA debt collectors that seldom meet with the public when they are actually in the office, and all have the option of working from home, as they have had for years tbh. The benefits of working for a LA. All have been given dates for injection.

I know plenty of people who have got the vaccine first jab, all of them in the category of 80+ - two of them are my grandparents who I would very much like to have in this mortal coil for a bit longer thank you very much - and one of them is my aunt who looks after my gran as she has dementia.

I understand, to an extent, your point, but what do you think would be the end goal?

We'd still have the same issue - we'd still have a lot of deaths, because the older people you don't think should be vaccinated will still be catching the virus. This thing has turned up in care homes where staff are tested twice a week and have been in lockdown for months. It's a virus, it spreads.

So giving millions more younger people their jab, and protecting them from serious illness, but not stopping them spreading it, isn't really going to get us anywhere either.

They'll have weighed up the risks. As I said, Indonesia have done it differently, and we'll have to see how that turns out, but while I have some reservations, I can't fault the idea of getting the old done first. I did initially question it, but that was more to do with ensuring frontline staff were the first in line as they were the ones treating multiple patients. Luckily, the UK's program so far has covered both groups and we're on the way to hitting the Feb 15th target. Still some going yet.

 

[davek]

That's fine mate, but all Tory bashing aside (and I agree they deserve pretty much everything that comes their way), do you honestly believe that vaccine has an 8% efficacy? Does that ring true in any way?

For that to be the case, AZ lied about everything they did. The UK authorities lied about their processes - not the Tories, but independent regulators. India and other countries turned a blind eye to their own data to approve it. All for a placebo that would obviously come back and bite them hard.

8%.

I'm sorry mate but... nah.

They spun beyond reason the limited findings they had on testing over-65s. THAT was a reason the US back before Christmas were stating they would require more testing done.

This news is not out of the blue or part of any EU vendetta. That's for the birds and the Little Englanders like @peteblue

 

[Dymak]

OK mate

Yeah, pure blag stuff. They’re down as key workers. If I hadn’t finished my contract at the same LA just before Christmas, I’d have already had my jab by now. I’d have been one of the first on the list, certainly in the first cohort of ASC workers. No doubt.

 

[BlueToff]

They have gone along, it seems, with an over-reach claimed by the AZ/Oxford vaccine makers that they have robust data on efficacy for over 65s - their own regulators dance to the Tory tune.

It's obvious now that the ERA have determined the AZ vaccine is not suitable for pver-65s (and I guess the US will follow suit).

Dave, you've literally just latched onto the most spurious claim you can because it suits.

8% is nothing. There is no way on God's green earth that it would get through anywhere in the world.

And it just so happens to come out days after a major disagreement between AZ and the EU, from German government sources unwilling to go on record? And you're just lapping it up?

 

[davek]

So based on that, what about India?

They'll take anything. They're as bad as this government.

 

[peteblue]

I really don’t see how any journalist could in good conscience publish this type of claim without having either government/medical sources who were prepared to go on the record or a published medical study.

The interpretation of the latter have been bad enough without amplifying what is effectively gossip.

I very much doubt the 8% is true, most of the scientists I read were not expecting a drop off in efficency based on age and it hadn’t happened in the smaller studies, but even if it does turn out to be true you need more concrete info before you publish something this damaging to public confidence.

Mud sticks. The EU cocked up the order, it’s 27 countries are about to give it a kicking, they tried to bully AZ, so now it’s put the knife in....EU politics at its finest....

 

[BlueToff]

Can you be a Little EUer?

 

[davek]

Dave, you've literally just latched onto the most spurious claim you can because it suits.

8% is nothing. There is no way on God's green earth that it would get through anywhere in the world.

And it just so happens to come out days after a major disagreement between AZ and the EU, from German government sources unwilling to go on record? And you're just lapping it up?

It is well established that the AZ vaccine's testing on older groups was low.

They knew that. They were told that. They then went away before Christmas and rethought their strategy rather than doing more testing. This vaccine should never have been offered to older people. Under 65s? No problem, apparently. Over 65s - no go. That was the call to make. But that obvioulsy did not suit either the company or the UK government that sunk hundreds of millions into it.

 

[peteblue]

They spun beyond reason the limited findings they had on testing over-65s. THAT was a reason the US back before Christmas were stating they would require more testing done.

This news is not out of the blue or part of any EU vendetta. That's for the birds and the Little Englanders like @peteblue

Dave, you do realise that governments would like there own companies to be leading this don’t you. That’s why the German/American vaccine is fine with the both, the Oxford vaccine is fine with us (and others) and the French vaccine is favoured by the EU but won’t arrive until the virus has gone.....

 

[davek]

Dave, you do realise that governments would like there own companies to be leading this don’t you. That’s why the German/American vaccine is fine with the both, the Oxford vaccine is fine with us (and others) and the French vaccine is favoured by the EU but won’t arrive until the virus has gone.....

Your economic nationalism is of no use here. Not interested. BTW, the EU invested in AZ too.

 

[BlueToff]

It is well established that the AZ vaccine's testing on older groups was low.

They knew that. They were told that. They then went away before Christmas and rethought their strategy rather than doing more testing. This vaccine should never have been offered to older people. Under 65s? No problem, apparently. Over 65s - no go. That was the call to make. But that obvioulsy did not suit either the company or the UK government that sunk hundreds of millions into it.

There's no actual, provable evidence of this though. It's assumptions.

AZ have categorically denied it so BILD and the other publication are going to have to come up with some hard evidence that will stand up firmly under unbiased scrutiny, not someone who would blame this government for the sun collapsing in on itself.

I just find it far too convenient. If there is truth in it - there may well be some - then we'll find out, won't we. But you've convinced yourself based on nothing but one report which has now been taken down after AZ hit out at it?