Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[BlueToff]

Loads of people still go into work whilst ill; many of them because they have to / because there are financial penalties if they don't (especially with gig labour).

My point though is whether those thousands of deaths that we treat as just one of those things are preventable, and specifically whether if we had a proper test and trace system (like SK and Taiwan) whether we'd be able to use it to prevent those deaths. If we could, without any economic penalty (beyond the cost of maintaining the system) then I think its something we absolutely should do.

Okay, I agree on that second part.

What can we do about people going to work when they're ill, though?

And how do you define when someone should or should not go to work?

You can't can you, because different people fight things off differently - or are more susceptible to certain illnesses than others. So how do you control that? Where would the cut-off be?

I totally understand in regards to something like COVID, where it can be tested for. But I'm not sure how an everyday bug - which ultimately is what can cause/lead to flu or a bad illness - can really be tested, tracked and traced?

 

[widnesblue]

Thanks.

Just to be clear, I was just putting out a question/thought I'd had. If that in theory with everyone wearing masks etc, it should be as 'safe' as anywhere else is. But I don't work in a school or have to go to one.

One of the problems that you have, is will be school kids going out after school and spending it with people in different bubbles. Schools themselves are deep cleaned after every school day. It could of been spread by the time a learner/teacher is showing symptoms, that will be a big issue. The school building themselves will be safe, it’s the people in the building that ain’t safe. As a tutor, it’s not mandatory for me to wear a mask, just wear one to be safe anyways, it’s not mandatory for pupils to wear them either, some do, some don’t. Some forum users on here, who work in education might have a different process to what my work does. You’d like to think it’s safe, but the likelihood is, it isn’t. Should schools be shut, probably, will they? No.


This is just my opinion, I’m probably wrong, but I think the government used schools as a test to try Hurd immunity and it backfired massively. Now we are seeing the dangers it’s causing in communities and the effects it’s having.

 

[BlueToff]

One of the problems that you have, is will be school kids going out after school and spending it with people in different bubbles. Schools themselves are deep cleaned after every school day. It could of been spread by the time a learner/teacher is showing symptoms, that will be a big issue. The school building themselves will be safe, it’s the people in the building that ain’t safe. As a tutor, it’s not mandatory for me to wear a mask, just wear one to be safe anyways, it’s not mandatory for pupils to wear them either, some do, some don’t. Some forum users on here, who work in education might have a different process to what my work does. You’d like to think it’s safe, but the likelihood is, it isn’t. Should schools be shut, probably, will they? No.


This is just my opinion, I’m probably wrong, but I think the government used schools as a test to try Hurd immunity and it backfired massively. Now we are seeing the dangers it’s causing in communities and the effects it’s having.

Personally I would see them kept shut mate, but it would put a huge amount of strain back onto people too (and of course they would still be open anyway, for key workers' children).

Maybe a staggered approach, with less students in at any one time, could work? Not sure it solves the main issue.

Issue is with shutting stuff down (and this is the thing with lockdowns) that whenever measures are relieved in any way, there is ultimately going to be a rise in cases.

At least now we have the vaccine, so if there is the need for them to be shut for a sustained period, hopefully the vaccine, plus improving weather, relieves the pressure on the NHS and it means that the spike doesn't have as much of an impact.

 

[BlueToff]

But then there is that term asymptomatic. Standard flu you have it and you know you have.

Yep. Sorry if the wires got crossed.

For something like covid, I fully get test, track and trace and think it's a travesty that the UK's is so poor.

I'm not sure that test, track and trace can actually really combat something like flu (as an example) going forward after covid, though.

But there should definitely be something in place so that if there is a virus going around that needs stemming, it can be done so without lockdowns.

 

[dublinbluenose]

5,000 cases in Ireland today, willbe the same next few days until backlog is cleared. R number is close to 2. Those 5,000 will be 15,000 in 10 days unless something radical changes.

Another 2 or my extended family have tested positive.

 

[Toast]

Email just now off kids schools.
Loads of teachers not going in, cleaning staff not going in.
School shut.
Nice one. FFS.

 

[Jebus_lives]

Are you saying our cultures are different or not? I don't really think they are?

Our culture definitely isn't that much different to Aus or NZ, either.

You said that I shouldn't just compare to Europe. I believe we should compare everywhere, and objectively we've done very badly. But people are so definitive. Act like 'if we just did this, it would definitely work' - especially in the Aus/NZ examples - but there's so many other factors that also need to be taken into account.

In general, European countries have all tried to tackle this in the same way. Some with stricter lockdowns than others. None of the three hit badly now got a test and trace system up and running that worked, or we wouldn't be seeing the numbers we are now, would we.

I'm saying comparing purely because we are neighbours isn't helpful. We should look at every country for good practice, but like for like comparisons aren't that helpful unless you deeply analyse a range of respective criteria.

I think this illustrates the difficulty in doing simple country by country comparison.

Inferring the effectiveness of government interventions against COVID-19 | Science

I don't disagree we should give consideration to them, but just doing a quick like for like comparison is misleading.

 

[widnesblue]

Personally I would see them kept shut mate, but it would put a huge amount of strain back onto people too (and of course they would still be open anyway, for key workers' children).

Maybe a staggered approach, with less students in at any one time, could work? Not sure it solves the main issue.

Issue is with shutting stuff down (and this is the thing with lockdowns) that whenever measures are relieved in any way, there is ultimately going to be a rise in cases.

At least now we have the vaccine, so if there is the need for them to be shut for a sustained period, hopefully the vaccine, plus improving weather, relieves the pressure on the NHS and it means that the spike doesn't have as much of an impact.

It makes sense for them to be completely shut and to slowly stagger them back in but will it work? Doubt it. Until this vaccine works, the rates will continue to go up once they are all back in. Only way it works IMO, is if the is a complete lockdown for however long it takes, but that will have a massive effect on the economy and sadly that comes first with this government.


If we shut schools, kids will do the online sessions, which don’t really take long to do, then they’ll be out with their mates or doing whatever cos their parents/family members will still have to go to work.

It’s just gonna go round in a circle til the vaccine works and everyone has it. The tier system isn’t working, lockdown didn’t work, only hope is this vaccine works and the end is put to this virus.

 

[BlueToff]

I'm saying comparing purely because we are neighbours isn't helpful. We should look at every country for good practice, but like for like comparisons aren't that helpful unless you deeply analyse a range of respective criteria.

I think this illustrates the difficulty in doing simple country by country comparison.

Inferring the effectiveness of government interventions against COVID-19 | Science

I don't disagree we should give consideration to them, but just doing a quick like for like comparison is misleading.

I agree with you

 

[Jebus_lives]

I agree with you

I don't think we were ever in full disagreement. Just different shades of grey.

 

[davek]

Those are rules of the game... If opposition party oppose Tory government so early in it's tenure it's those who oppose who are blamed for undermining the government. It's not if we have a fair and impartial media, be with you if it were the case.

That's a stretch.

As for the media: if the Tories are allowed to go on and kill another 70,000 they'll stick with them.

 

[BlueToff]

It makes sense for them to be completely shut and to slowly stagger them back in but will it work? Doubt it. Until this vaccine works, the rates will continue to go up once they are all back in. Only way it works IMO, is if the is a complete lockdown for however long it takes, but that will have a massive effect on the economy and sadly that comes first with this government.


If we shut schools, kids will do the online sessions, which don’t really take long to do, then they’ll be out with their mates or doing whatever cos their parents/family members will still have to go to work.

It’s just gonna go round in a circle til the vaccine works and everyone has it. The tier system isn’t working, lockdown didn’t work, only hope is this vaccine works and the end is put to this virus.

On this bit in bold mate, but i'm a firm believer that it can't be simplified like that. Health, social, economy - all adds up to the same thing.

However, if your theory/opinion that they're keeping the schools open for purely economic reasons is correct, then it's not right (and your opinion is probably fairly spot on). However, there are genuine concerns for people that aren't just economy based and I'd like to think those factors are also a reason why the schools haven't been shut back down as of yet.

But yes, on your last two paragraphs, that's also an issue. We have to just hope the vaccine can work now. Lockdowns don't work because as soon as they end cases go back up. Track test and trace should be in place but ourselves and a lot of other countries have failed to implement them properly, and even then the end game is a vaccine.

 

[maccavennie]

We know the az vaccine is 70% effective for 12 weeks.

We also know Pfizer one is 90% for 21 days. Now surely to god we can assume its not going to lose all its immunity within 12 weeks?

The British medical board have far more data than the public and have decided thats what we should do.

Good enough for me

Email just now off kids schools.
Loads of teachers not going in, cleaning staff not going in.
School shut.
Nice one. FFS.

Is that a school in Liverpool mate?

Didn't mean to tag you in @arminisgod sorry mate.

 

[Goat]

Is that a school in Liverpool mate?

Didn't mean to tag you in @arminisgod sorry mate.

He lives down, down South.

 

[Seanjd]

Stop comparing this disease to the flu ffs.