Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

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Bruce start living on the shop floor in the real world FGS......daily hands on training, is how I learnt my trade - the opperartives I came across with high qualifications only 1 in ten where of any quality the rest on trial I dispatched to another department where their academic qualifications were more suited....

Bloody hell Joey you've spouted some stuff over the last few years but dismissing the required skill level and qualifications of ICU nurses like that is bordering on the insane.

I recently had the horrible experience of sitting with my late mum at her ICU bed for a few days. Doctors pop by every now and then but nurses do the mainstay of work and checking for vital signs. In an arena of panic and over-stretched staff I can only imagine that the amount of work placed on nurses is going to go through the roof.
 
Bruce start living on the shop floor in the real world FGS......daily hands on training, is how I learnt my trade - the opperartives I came across with high qualifications only 1 in ten where of any quality the rest on trial I dispatched to another department where their academic qualifications were more suited....

Were you a nurse in your working life ?
 
Washing up liquid is the number 1 thing you can buy to kill this virus on contact, 10x more potent against it than bleach.

"In the context of the on-going pandemic and the control of interpandemic influenza in the home, it is possible to conclude that in a household setting, simple, readily available products such as 1% bleach, 10% vinegar and 0.01% washing up liquid all make convenient, easy to handle killing agents for influenza virus A/H1N1. These findings can be readily translated into simple public health advice, even in low resource settings. The public do not need to source more sophisticated cleaning products than these."

 
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Tom Hancock (@hancocktom) Tweeted:
Incredible detail in this FT story: up until last week, the UK was basing its coronavirus control policy on a model based on hospitalisation rates for a different disease with lower rates of intensive care need than coronavirus https://t.co/7rJYh9sqg2


That's grossly unfair on the team at Imperial. Firstly, this is a new disease, so how on earth were they expected to base anything on past outbreaks of it? Secondly, they are quite clear in the paper they published yesterday that they have been adding data from both China and Italy to their model as it became available. Italy panicked and did what so many here think we should do, yet it hasn't made a blind bit of difference.
 
Bloody hell Joey you've spouted some stuff over the last few years but dismissing the required skill level and qualifications of ICU nurses like that is bordering on the insane.

I recently had the horrible experience of sitting with my late mum at her ICU bed for a few days. Doctors pop by every now and then but nurses do the mainstay of work and checking for vital signs. In an arena of panic and over-stretched staff I can only imagine that the amount of work placed on nurses is going to go through the roof.
We are talking about lack of supply here - shortages of skills in vacancies they cant fill - the system they have now is too slow that's my point..... Not the skills of the staff who are working 12 hour shifts OK....
 
That's the point though, and the Imperial paper clearly states this. They don't believe the suppression (ie lockdown) approach is sustainable, and certainly not for the ~18 months they believe it will take for a vaccine to be ready. We've spoken at length on other threads about the health implications of austerity and poverty, and such a lockdown would cause poverty on a nationwide scale.

Like I said, there isn't really an easy way out of this situation, and the Imperial team are clear that locking down the country for a (relatively) short period won't result in this thing going away. It's not a case of the government's approach having this outcome (x number of deaths) and lockdown resulting in 0 deaths. Not at all.
But they also say that suppression, whilst not great is the better of the two options given the current data as we don’t have the surge hospital capacity to cope. Perhaps if we focus on improving that in the next few months, along with knowing more about the virus and its treatment, we will have more options.
“Perhaps our most significant conclusion is that mitigation is unlikely to be feasible without emergency surge capacity limits of the UK and US healthcare systems being exceeded many times over. In the most effective mitigation strategy examined, which leads to a single, relatively short epidemic (case isolation, household quarantine and social distancing of the elderly), the surge limits for both general ward and ICU beds would be exceeded by at least 8-fold under the more optimistic scenario for critical care requirements that we examined. In addition, even if all patients were able to be treated, we predict there would still be in the order of 250,000 deaths in GB, and 1.1-1.2 million in the US.”

In the UK, this conclusion has only been reached in the last few days, with the refinement of estimates of likely ICU demand due to COVID-19 based on experience in Italy and the UK (previous planning estimates assumed half the demand now estimated) and with the NHS providing increasing certainty around the limits of hospital surge capacity.

We therefore conclude that epidemic suppression is the only viable strategy at the current time. The social and economic effects of the measures which are needed to achieve this policy goal will be profound. Many countries have adopted such measures already, but even those countries at an earlier stage of their epidemic (such as the UK) will need to do so imminently.
 
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