Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[peteblue]

The thing is, coronaviruses mutate, which is why we need a new flu vaccine each year. By the time we get a vaccine for this, we'll have had some form of Covid for probably well over a year, which begs the question are we developing a vaccine for the virus that was or the virus that we'll have in January?

Bubonic plague....

 

[Kenshin]

This is a good summary of the mask nonsense.

So I'm in work, I don't have to wear a mask.

I go next door to another shop and I have to wear a mask.

The staff next door come into my shop and they have to wear a mask.

While they are in their shop they don't have to wear a mask, but I do. They come to my shop they have to wear a mask I don't. All the customers do though...

Me and all the customers from their shop and my shop go to a restaurant two doors down and non of us have to wear a mask.

I'm in a shopping centre, don't have to wear a mask until I actually go inside a shop, a shop with all the same people who were in the shopping centre without a mask, now have to wear it inside the shop, with the staff with no masks...

Someone in Wigan can go the pub with 100 strangers, but they can't sit in their mums front room. Go 5 minutes round the corner and they can go where they want.. but only with a mask.

So if masks work why can't you wear a mask in your mums house if you live in Greater Manchester?

I can go on a plane next week, but I have to wear a mask the whole time, what in flight meal would you like to order....alcohol and other refreshments available on the flight, so I have to remove my mask to eat or drink and I can take as long as I want to eat my food and consume my drink??

People have to self isolate for two weeks when they return from certain places but not others, aren't we all in the same Airports when we get back? Can't you just go to a drive through test place and get tested and results back within 48 hours so you don't have to isolate.

The whole thing is just a load of bollocks and I'm bored of it. I just want to get on with life and this government is doing all this for control. Kids heads are [Poor language removed]. This isn't the new normal its a load of xxxx.

 

[Goat]

This is a good summary of the mask nonsense.

Just wear a mask you selfish arsehole.











Quite a big increase today, lets hope its just a blip.

 

[Kenshin]

Just wear a mask you selfish arsehole.











Quite a big increase today, lets hope its just a blip.

Again I do.

Doesn't mean it makes sense for me to.

 

[Goat]

Again I do.

Doesn't mean it makes sense for me to.

Then I agree, I also wear a mask, but think its an utter joke.

 

[Nymzee]

Then I agree, I also wear a mask, but think its an utter joke.

Quit bitching.

 

[Kenshin]

Then I agree, I also wear a mask, but think its an utter joke.

Mate I wear a mask just walking in town through the crowds of people. Just because if I have to wear it in the shop I may as well wear it walking to the shop given the hundreds of people. Still don't agree with wearing it but it's applying logic if I have to.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Again I do.

Doesn't mean it makes sense for me to.

Not sure I get what that means? It sounds like you yourself understand the rationale behind wearing one, hence why you do. As it's hardly a big imposition to pop a mask on when you go shopping, what is there that makes it nonsensical?

 

[Kenshin]

Not sure I get what that means? It sounds like you yourself understand the rationale behind wearing one, hence why you do. As it's hardly a big imposition to pop a mask on when you go shopping, what is there that makes it nonsensical?

Not quite. I understand I have to wear one as per government instructions. So on that front I wear it where I need to wear it because that's what I am meant to do.

I get the rationale , but it doesn't mean it's credible. The whole passing it onto others etc is fine in theory , not 4 months after the pandemic started though.

Like I've said before. If day one of lockdown we were told we had to wear them then I wouldn't have questioned it. That made an incredible amount of sense to do. Doing it after 4 months however given the logic behind it (where you are and aren't meant to wear them) that is the side that doesn't make sense.

Like the game of thrones ending. Just because you can apply logic to it, doesn't mean it's good logic.

But then people will agree and people will disagree with that. Either way I get and I follow the ruling that I have to wear it.

But to sum up why I think it's ridiculous. It seems our higher management want me and my staff to start wearing masks within the office without any contact with anyone else. After 5 months may I add. Despite we have been working in close proximity since the get go, on hospital grounds with very little measures put in place and a heavy reliance on people having to shield to free up space for social distancing (which is still questionable in our office).

Does that really make sense? Given we have all been together for 5 months and not caught/spread it?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Not quite. I understand I have to wear one as per government instructions. So on that front I wear it where I need to wear it because that's what I am meant to do.

I get the rationale , but it doesn't mean it's credible. The whole passing it onto others etc is fine in theory , not 4 months after the pandemic started though.

Like I've said before. If day one of lockdown we were told we had to wear them then I wouldn't have questioned it. That made an incredible amount of sense to do. Doing it after 4 months however given the logic behind it (where you are and aren't meant to wear them) that is the side that doesn't make sense.

Like the game of thrones ending. Just because you can apply logic to it, doesn't mean it's good logic.

But then people will agree and people will disagree with that. Either way I get and I follow the ruling that I have to wear it.

But to sum up why I think it's ridiculous. It seems our higher management want me and my staff to start wearing masks within the office without any contact with anyone else. After 5 months may I add. Despite we have been working in close proximity since the get go, on hospital grounds with very little measures put in place and a heavy reliance on people having to shield to free up space for social distancing (which is still questionable in our office).

Does that really make sense? Given we have all been together for 5 months and not caught/spread it?

I've said several times in a prior discussion with @GrandOldTeam, the scientific understanding has changed since February/March time, as we know more about the conditions through which the virus spreads, we know that it is especially contagious when people are asymptomatic, and we have a supply chain that supports the public wearing masks while not depriving healthcare workers of equipment. None of those things were known or existed in March, so the rationale is fundamentally different.

As for the application in some facilities and not others, that is purely the political application of the scientific guidance.

 

[Kenshin]

I've said several times in a prior discussion with @GrandOldTeam, the scientific understanding has changed since February/March time, as we know more about the conditions through which the virus spreads, we know that it is especially contagious when people are asymptomatic, and we have a supply chain that supports the public wearing masks while not depriving healthcare workers of equipment. None of those things were known or existed in March, so the rationale is fundamentally different.

As for the application in some facilities and not others, that is purely the political application of the scientific guidance.

WHO still don't see them as mandatory or having any credible use in day to day application. Well according to their website and despite never really knowing what they do, I trust they are the experts on health matters tbh.

But political application of the guidance is pretty much the problem I see, just in a fancier way of saying it. There shouldn't be a matter of political application , it should be scientific based and that alone. The minute you start to determine opinion on something like that it loses all credibility in its importance don't you think?

Masks should be a universal decision , not a political one. There shouldn't be any grey area for anyone. Either they help and therefore should be worn or their importance is questionable and then it should be open to personal choice.

If WHO came out tomorrow and said masks are recommended to be worn in indoor scenarios as per our experts then I wouldn't say another word about it. If the ones who are the experts tell me I need to wear one then I accept that.

But until then I will question it. I won't refuse to follow it but I will question it none the less.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

I've said several times in a prior discussion with @GrandOldTeam, the scientific understanding has changed since February/March time, as we know more about the conditions through which the virus spreads, we know that it is especially contagious when people are asymptomatic, and we have a supply chain that supports the public wearing masks while not depriving healthcare workers of equipment. None of those things were known or existed in March, so the rationale is fundamentally different.

As for the application in some facilities and not others, that is purely the political application of the scientific guidance.

You missed the point.

They're continuing to put Jenny Harries front and centre with her assertive recommendations;



... When her credibility has been repeatedly undermined by government policy on key issues. You're then inevitably going to get;



I mean, I try and be pretty open minded. I've been very sympathetic to the challenge the government have had at every turn - damned if they do, damned if they don't - the "whatabout" and nitpicking has been ridiculous at times, pandemics aren't consistent and convenient but just two examples with Jenny Harries;

1. 2m35s - large crowds aren't as bad as small crowds. A few months later, pubs etc are all back then before arenas/football stadiums.



2. Face masks are terrible/make it worse;

Jenny Harries, deputy chief medical officer, said the masks could “actually trap the virus” and cause the person wearing it to breathe it in.
“For the average member of the public walking down a street, it is not a good idea” to wear a face mask in the hope of preventing infection, she added.
Dr Harries told BBC News: “What tends to happen is people will have one mask. They won’t wear it all the time, they will take it off when they get home, they will put it down on a surface they haven’t cleaned.
“Or they will be out and they haven’t washed their hands, they will have a cup of coffee somewhere, they half hook it off, they wipe something over it.
“In fact, you can actually trap the virus in the mask and start breathing it in.
Asked if people are putting themselves more at risk by wearing masks, Dr Harries added: “Because of these behavioural issues, people can adversely put themselves at more risk than less.”

Then a few months later, masks are now great. There's nothing unique about coronavirus and a mask when it comes to the point she is making about contamination.

Whatever she tells me now I just shrug and treat it similarly to a football ITK on transfers.

Sure, all for learning as you go and there's not much worse in modern society than people who scream u turn etc as though changing opinion is toxic but for me, Western/WHO 'understanding' of pandemics for both large crowds and masks seems well off for me. They spend billions each year to prepare and model coronaviruses- it isn't revolutionary - and they either didn't have a clue, or had a narrative to maintain.

Logic to me also suggests they were right with masks initially on them being counter productive to the general population, but I feel they were always going to recommend masks post lockdown as a visual stimuli.

On dealing with a pandemic and basics of large crowds/masks = China 1-0 West/WHO 0.

 

[ForeverBlue92]

That Jenny Harries is a tasty little piece for her age like.

Could throw me over her lap and smack my bottom for not wearing a mask anytime she wanted.

 

[TommyDavo]

You missed the point.

They're continuing to put Jenny Harries front and centre with her assertive recommendations;



... When her credibility has been repeatedly undermined by government policy on key issues. You're then inevitably going to get;



I mean, I try and be pretty open minded. I've been very sympathetic to the challenge the government have had at every turn - damned if they do, damned if they don't - the "whatabout" and nitpicking has been ridiculous at times, pandemics aren't consistent and convenient but just two examples with Jenny Harries;

1. 2m35s - large crowds aren't as bad as small crowds. A few months later, pubs etc are all back then before arenas/football stadiums.



2. Face masks are terrible/make it worse;

Jenny Harries, deputy chief medical officer, said the masks could “actually trap the virus” and cause the person wearing it to breathe it in.
“For the average member of the public walking down a street, it is not a good idea” to wear a face mask in the hope of preventing infection, she added.
Dr Harries told BBC News: “What tends to happen is people will have one mask. They won’t wear it all the time, they will take it off when they get home, they will put it down on a surface they haven’t cleaned.
“Or they will be out and they haven’t washed their hands, they will have a cup of coffee somewhere, they half hook it off, they wipe something over it.
“In fact, you can actually trap the virus in the mask and start breathing it in.
Asked if people are putting themselves more at risk by wearing masks, Dr Harries added: “Because of these behavioural issues, people can adversely put themselves at more risk than less.”

Then a few months later, masks are now great. There's nothing unique about coronavirus and a mask when it comes to the point she is making about contamination.

Whatever she tells me now I just shrug and treat it similarly to a football ITK on transfers.

Sure, all for learning as you go and there's not much worse in modern society than people who scream u turn etc as though changing opinion is toxic but for me, Western/WHO 'understanding' of pandemics for both large crowds and masks seems well off for me. They spend billions each year to prepare and model coronaviruses- it isn't revolutionary - and they either didn't have a clue, or had a narrative to maintain.

Logic to me also suggests they were right with masks initially on them being counter productive to the general population, but I feel they were always going to recommend masks post lockdown as a visual stimuli.

On dealing with a pandemic and basics of large crowds/masks = China 1-0 West/WHO 0.

I am 60 and wearing a mask in shops to protect 30odd year old women who walk around without not giving a toss about my health. Yes, it rather annoys me as I am not a great advocate of them but tow the current line.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

You missed the point.

They're continuing to put Jenny Harries front and centre with her assertive recommendations;



... When her credibility has been repeatedly undermined by government policy on key issues. You're then inevitably going to get;



I mean, I try and be pretty open minded. I've been very sympathetic to the challenge the government have had at every turn - damned if they do, damned if they don't - the "whatabout" and nitpicking has been ridiculous at times, pandemics aren't consistent and convenient but just two examples with Jenny Harries;

1. 2m35s - large crowds aren't as bad as small crowds. A few months later, pubs etc are all back then before arenas/football stadiums.



2. Face masks are terrible/make it worse;

Jenny Harries, deputy chief medical officer, said the masks could “actually trap the virus” and cause the person wearing it to breathe it in.
“For the average member of the public walking down a street, it is not a good idea” to wear a face mask in the hope of preventing infection, she added.
Dr Harries told BBC News: “What tends to happen is people will have one mask. They won’t wear it all the time, they will take it off when they get home, they will put it down on a surface they haven’t cleaned.
“Or they will be out and they haven’t washed their hands, they will have a cup of coffee somewhere, they half hook it off, they wipe something over it.
“In fact, you can actually trap the virus in the mask and start breathing it in.
Asked if people are putting themselves more at risk by wearing masks, Dr Harries added: “Because of these behavioural issues, people can adversely put themselves at more risk than less.”

Then a few months later, masks are now great. There's nothing unique about coronavirus and a mask when it comes to the point she is making about contamination.

Whatever she tells me now I just shrug and treat it similarly to a football ITK on transfers.

Sure, all for learning as you go and there's not much worse in modern society than people who scream u turn etc as though changing opinion is toxic but for me, Western/WHO 'understanding' of pandemics for both large crowds and masks seems well off for me. They spend billions each year to prepare and model coronaviruses- it isn't revolutionary - and they either didn't have a clue, or had a narrative to maintain.

Logic to me also suggests they were right with masks initially on them being counter productive to the general population, but I feel they were always going to recommend masks post lockdown as a visual stimuli.

On dealing with a pandemic and basics of large crowds/masks = China 1-0 West/WHO 0.

To be fair, at the time that masks weren't being recommended, the entire country was in some form of lockdown, and our exposure to other people was, as a result, hugely limited. That was probably another factor, and as society is opening up more now, other steps are being taken. It'll be the same when schools re-open, as you can almost guarantee that if case numbers begin to rise again, a less important part of society (such as the pubs) will be asked to shut again.

The various behavioural aspects of mask wearing all still very much apply, and you see people wearing them wrongly all the time, and of course people will also fiddle with them or not wash their hands properly or various other things with minimise their effectiveness. That's going to be inevitable because people are people. You'd imagine that the guidelines are resting on the fact that most people will follow them properly rather than the few dolts that don't.

With regards to crowds, I suspect given your line of work and the clients you have in the event space that you have been following matters a lot more closely than I have. I'm not entirely convinced that the areas of society that have been opened haven't been made out of political and economic considerations rather than the health risk, but obviously it's hard to have evidence to back up what is largely a hunch.