Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

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whiteshadow said:
You really are an idiot.

If you think most doctors will disagree with implementing a track and trace system you really are ignorant. I follow 3 doctors on youtube.

They interview other doctors on their channels. If you think he is representative of most doctors you're foolish.

You think every doctor and medical expert on SAGE is wrong?

It's not about me vs him. It's about most medical experts vs him because you're also disagreeing with every medical expert in every country that has implemented a track and trace system. I hate to tell you but there's quite a lot of them.
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So my post didn’t agree or disagree with anyone. Just on the balance of this I’d rather listen to someone who has been to medical school than someone who has watched YouTube.

I agree that track and trace *is* effective. But it would have been effective a month ago. It works if introduced early and it’s manageable snd you have the resources to track. Otherwise it’s just pushing against the tide.

My interpretation of the post was that. You might have had a different one. But I’ll reiterate, when it comes to this kind of thing I’d respect the opinion of a doctor because my personal experience lies elsewhere (I only really use YouTube to listen to music and stuff).

I‘m loathe to say that you are on the wind up but your response was way over the top and I feel like you’ve jumped the shark a bit.
 
whiteshadow said:
I agree with you on the number of infections being too high. I said in an earlier post they should have had the system in place before they lifted lockdown.

Trying to curb the infections is better than doing nothing though and will delay any future peaks and lockdowns, even if only marginally.

Mentioned about security in an earlier post too. Most people have facebook, use google, both of which pretty know everywhere you go, what you buy, etc. yet are worried about using an app to help saves peoples lives, seems pretty rediculous.

I imagine if the government wanted to really know stuff about people they would have means and ways of doing it that wouldn't require people to download an app either.

I said you're wreckless because most medical experts believe or are using track and trace in countries to curb the outbreak.

Being a doctor your words carry a lot of weight and your posts would give the impression that the medical establisment are against track and trace, which isn't true. Look how many countries are using it successfully, New Zealand, South Korea, Thaiwan etc.

You trying to say all their medical experts and Epidemiologists are wrong to be recommending that course of action?
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Not all doctors are the same and in many cases epidemiology isn't so much a clinical discipline as a mathematical one.
 
JEBUS_LIVES said:
Exactly right. But public perception and consent are critical. People will go along with something if they think it is fair and applied equally. They won't if they think it isn't.

And particularly as more evidence starts to emerge about differing socioeconomic impacts of the virus - areas with pre-existing socioeconomic disadvantages are much more likely to be subject to 'localised lockdown' be wise of greater exposure as well as much more likely to be fined for breaches that other areas aren't - it will present many more problems.

The App and tracing system needs to be successful at the first attempt - rushing it through is not sensible in the current climate.
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Yeah, they are.

The Tories have messed up and need to gain peoples trust, which they're not going to do standing by Cummings. He has to go really for them to keep any credibility.

It's a shame stuff like this always affects the poorest people the worst.

If it's not ready, it's not ready, true, it's just a shame because it's impact will rely a lot on the number of cases being low initially.
 
whiteshadow said:
I agree with you on the number of infections being too high. I said in an earlier post they should have had the system in place before they lifted lockdown.

Trying to curb the infections is better than doing nothing though and will delay any future peaks and lockdowns, even if only marginally.

Mentioned about security in an earlier post too. Most people have facebook, use google, both of which pretty know everywhere you go, what you buy, etc. yet are worried about using an app to help saves peoples lives, seems pretty rediculous.

I imagine if the government wanted to really know stuff about people they would have means and ways of doing it that wouldn't require people to download an app either.

I said you're wreckless because most medical experts believe or are using track and trace in countries to curb the outbreak.

Being a doctor your words carry a lot of weight and your posts would give the impression that the medical establisment are against track and trace, which isn't true. Look how many countries are using it successfully, New Zealand, South Korea, Thaiwan etc.

You trying to say all their medical experts and Epidemiologists are wrong to be recommending that course of action?
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My posts give no indication that the medical establishment are against track and trace. I have mentioned that early lockdown and test/track/trace would be key. I've praised Jacinda Arden too. We're implementing track and trace when we have had 370,000 identified cases (remember these were symptomatic or lived with a symptomatic key worker to get tested, not asymptomatic) is far from ideal. It's not even ready to go, and we fall short at testing too.
Did your whole medical community of three YouTube doctors say that NOW was the time to implement it? If they did, their degrees are from the back of a cereal box.
 
mill said:
So my post didn’t agree or disagree with anyone. Just on the balance of this I’d rather listen to someone who has been to medical school than someone who has watched YouTube.

I agree that track and trace *is* effective. But it would have been effective a month ago. It works if introduced early and it’s manageable snd you have the resources to track. Otherwise it’s just pushing against the tide.

My interpretation of the post was that. You might have had a different one. But I’ll reiterate, when it comes to this kind of thing I’d respect the opinion of a doctor because my personal experience lies elsewhere (I only really use YouTube to listen to music and stuff).

I‘m loathe to say that you are on the wind up but your response was way over the top and I feel like you’ve jumped the shark a bit.
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Wether you agree with his opinion or not he's going against the WHO, multiple countries as well as loads of epidemiologists. That's not my opinion, look it up.

Doctors have different opinions, just like epidemiologists, but if you look at all the countries that are doing well, they're tracking the infections.

Doctor or not, his opinion is against the concensus and the evidence seen from countries on top of infection numbers.

I apologise for the insults but your post was pretty condescending and patronising from the off.
 
whiteshadow said:
Wether you agree with his opinion or not he's going against the WHO, multiple countries as well as loads of epidemiologists. That's not my opinion, look it up.

Doctors have different opinions, just like epidemiologists, but if you look at all the countries that are doing well, they're tracking the infections.

Doctor or not, his opinion is against the concensus and the evidence seen from countries on top of infection numbers.

I apologise for the insults but your post was pretty condescending and patronising from the off.
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I don't think he is
 
DrEFC said:
My posts give no indication that the medical establishment are against track and trace. I have mentioned that early lockdown and test/track/trace would be key. I've praised Jacinda Arden too. We're implementing track and trace when we have had 370,000 identified cases (remember these were symptomatic or lived with a symptomatic key worker to get tested, not asymptomatic) is far from ideal. It's not even ready to go, and we fall short at testing too.
Did your whole medical community of three YouTube doctors say that NOW was the time to implement it? If they did, their degrees are from the back of a cereal box.
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You're right, your post doesn't say the establishment are against it but people will assume that because you're a doctor they must be, @mill being a case in point.

You may well be right, because the infections are probably fairly high by now it might get out of hand anyway.

No, they all said you should implement it when the infection numbers are low, which is what I've said before too.

To try is better than doing nothing though.
 
My final thing about track and trace:

There isn't enough information yet about effectiveness of control measures in different locations, and we should be careful about assuming that specific measures will have exactly the same effect everywhere.

However, its quite clear that in the right circumstances targeting clusters is effective.

AAAS

www.sciencemag.org www.sciencemag.org
 
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