Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[ramacca]

They're on the "exempt" list.

To be fair, if we can't get enough Brits to pick the crops, then there's not much choice in the matter. Anecdotally, farmers round Preston and Ormskirk aren't seeing much interest from Brits in the seasonal work

Although, on the other hand it makes more financial sense for farmers to employ immigrants and then charge them for board and lodging, so it ain't black and white.

If they offered cash in hand there'd be loads lining up, like in the good old days when you went on the sick for two weeks, first week picking spuds/veg second week in the ale house. At the same time getting sick pay but always within the 13 weeks so you didn't have to do 3 lie in days. Ah the 13 weeker club a select breed.

 

[Harryflashman]

Distancing advice in England could change to allow closer contact

Britain’s physical distancing advice to stay 2 metres from other people is a “precautionary approach” and could change to allow closer contact, top officials from Public Health England (PHE) have said.

The guidance is out of line with advice in most other countries and with recommendations from the World Health Organisation, which says people should stay just one metre apart.

“We have taken a precautionary approach to say 2 metres apart, full stop,” said Yvonne Doyle, medical director of PHE in evidence to a hearing of the science and technology committee of MPs. “We are still learning about the virus.”

But, she said, the safe distance is still, being discussed and evidence amassed as the end of lockdown restrictions approaches. Doyle said she was aware that a reduction to 1 metre or 1.5 metres could make the difference between businesses re-opening or not.

“It is an important decision. We are clearly aware of that. We are aware of the requirements of the economy and business. We are aware of the concerns and anxieties of the population. But the science should inform the measures as we go forward,” she said. PHE is contributing to discussions in Sage on the infectivity of the virus in different settings and its transmission on surfaces.

Greg Clark, chair of the committee, pointed out that the UK was going it alone by insisting on a 2 metre separation. “Other countries are recommending a shorter distance,” he said. The WHO, Hong Kong, Singapore, France and China all say 1m apart is enough. Australia, Germany and the Netherlands recommend 1.5m while South Korea opts for the equivalent of 1.4m.

“In international comparisons, we are an outlier at an extreme end of the distancing that is recommended,” he told her.

“We are aware of the international differences,” said Doyle. They would be looking at “whether 2m is actually necessary or could it be reduced further.”

There is already evidence that people are less likely to get infected out of doors, which had fed into the decision to tell the public that they could take more outdoor exercise, she said.

Catherine Noakes, professor of environmental engineering for buildings at the University of Leeds, told the committee that the virus dispersed quickly in the open air. “The chances of you being able to inhale enough in an outdoor environment is very, very small,” she said.

There is very little evidence of outdoor transmission, she said. One study in China showed transmission between two people outside, but they were having a prolonged conversation, which suggested they were not far apart.

People can sit closer if they are back to back or side by side, she said. “We believe at 1m to the side or back you really breathe the air in the room rather than the plume coming out of someone’s mouth,” she told the committee. Passing close by somebody in the street, she added, “the risks are very, very small”.

Professor Andrew Curran, chief scientific adviser at the Health and Safety Executive, said the public needed to be involved in decisions about how they stay safe when they go back to work. Nobody should underestimate the ability of the British public to work things out for themselves, if they are given open and transparent information.

“If you have to resort to PPE, you have essentially given up,” he said.

ive not really been in this thread so apologies if it’s been mentioned but was chatting with a couple of lads that run a security company the other day and they’d suggested this had to happen if only because once the shops opened city centres like Liverpool become unmanageable. Having M&S, boots & Tesco queue 2m apart at the minute is fine but once you factor in customers doing the same at all The other shops you basically have queues overlapping.

As with many decisions I wonder if economics and practicality are at the core of it rather than ‘the science ‘ .

 

[ramacca]

Distancing advice in England could change to allow closer contact

Britain’s physical distancing advice to stay 2 metres from other people is a “precautionary approach” and could change to allow closer contact, top officials from Public Health England (PHE) have said.

The guidance is out of line with advice in most other countries and with recommendations from the World Health Organisation, which says people should stay just one metre apart.

“We have taken a precautionary approach to say 2 metres apart, full stop,” said Yvonne Doyle, medical director of PHE in evidence to a hearing of the science and technology committee of MPs. “We are still learning about the virus.”

But, she said, the safe distance is still, being discussed and evidence amassed as the end of lockdown restrictions approaches. Doyle said she was aware that a reduction to 1 metre or 1.5 metres could make the difference between businesses re-opening or not.

“It is an important decision. We are clearly aware of that. We are aware of the requirements of the economy and business. We are aware of the concerns and anxieties of the population. But the science should inform the measures as we go forward,” she said. PHE is contributing to discussions in Sage on the infectivity of the virus in different settings and its transmission on surfaces.

Greg Clark, chair of the committee, pointed out that the UK was going it alone by insisting on a 2 metre separation. “Other countries are recommending a shorter distance,” he said. The WHO, Hong Kong, Singapore, France and China all say 1m apart is enough. Australia, Germany and the Netherlands recommend 1.5m while South Korea opts for the equivalent of 1.4m.

“In international comparisons, we are an outlier at an extreme end of the distancing that is recommended,” he told her.

“We are aware of the international differences,” said Doyle. They would be looking at “whether 2m is actually necessary or could it be reduced further.”

There is already evidence that people are less likely to get infected out of doors, which had fed into the decision to tell the public that they could take more outdoor exercise, she said.

Catherine Noakes, professor of environmental engineering for buildings at the University of Leeds, told the committee that the virus dispersed quickly in the open air. “The chances of you being able to inhale enough in an outdoor environment is very, very small,” she said.

There is very little evidence of outdoor transmission, she said. One study in China showed transmission between two people outside, but they were having a prolonged conversation, which suggested they were not far apart.

People can sit closer if they are back to back or side by side, she said. “We believe at 1m to the side or back you really breathe the air in the room rather than the plume coming out of someone’s mouth,” she told the committee. Passing close by somebody in the street, she added, “the risks are very, very small”.

Professor Andrew Curran, chief scientific adviser at the Health and Safety Executive, said the public needed to be involved in decisions about how they stay safe when they go back to work. Nobody should underestimate the ability of the British public to work things out for themselves, if they are given open and transparent information.

“If you have to resort to PPE, you have essentially given up,” he said.

It was always the case that it was 1 metre. But instead of having the discussion with the public saying it's precautionary extra vigilance they just announced two metres and that was it, two metres. Now they want the economy opening up the two meters needs to go out of the window. Unfortunately, all it does is add to the general scepticism/mistrust about the 'experts' and the government.

 

[Goat]

*cough*

3 weeks before Johnson the clown finally faced facts.

https://www.grandoldteam.com/forum/threads/coronavirus-thread-serious-stuff.109382/page-75#post-7692102

I have no idea what we are waiting for.

Personally I would call martial law and close down the whole country for 2 weeks.

Literally stop everybody and anybody from leaving their house unless they worked for the NHS.

But you are wasting your time with him Dave, hes a Tory twitter bot.

Bojo could murder his whole family in front of him and he would still offer to suck him off.

 

[ramacca]

One rule for Cummings and another for the rest of us.

Police 'spoke to him. Why wasn't he fined and escorted back to London? And why didn't he resign like Ferguson? Scotland’s chief medical officer, Catherine Calderwood was forced out of office for breaching lockdown. In fact the legislation only applies if you're suspected of being infected as Cummings was. A disgrace.

Police spoke to Dominic Cummings after Durham trip during lockdown

Edit. Timeline Dominic Cummings, coronavirus and lockdown

 

[Tea_drinker]

Cummings has to go now.

 

[ramacca]

Cummings has to go now.

The infighting civil war in the Tory party will get very toxic. Another one Johnson will throw under the bus to shift blame. It must have been a ritual of the Bullingdon Club to do something and shift the blame onto someone else. Or maybe it's just a sense of 'character building' that comes from a private education.

 

[Jebus_lives]

One rule for Cummings and another for the rest of us.

Police 'spoke to him. Why wasn't he fined and escorted back to London? And why didn't he resign like Ferguson? Scotland’s chief medical officer, Catherine Calderwood was forced out of office for breaching lockdown. In fact the legislation only applies if you're suspected of being infected as Cummings was. A disgrace.

Police spoke to Dominic Cummings after Durham trip during lockdown

Edit. Timeline Dominic Cummings, coronavirus and lockdown

Do as I say, not do as I do.

Ferguson makes an easy target because he clearly admitted his error and did the decent thing. No such examples within this Government.

 

[Tea_drinker]

The infighting civil war in the Tory party will get very toxic. Another one Johnson will throw under the bus to shift blame. It must have been a ritual of the Bullingdon Club to do something and shift the blame onto someone else. Or maybe it's just a sense of 'character building' that comes from a private education.

Cummings seems to be the brains (says it all) of the operation. I reckon he has the whip hand over Johnson.

 

[davek]

One rule for Cummings and another for the rest of us.

Police 'spoke to him. Why wasn't he fined and escorted back to London? And why didn't he resign like Ferguson? Scotland’s chief medical officer, Catherine Calderwood was forced out of office for breaching lockdown. In fact the legislation only applies if you're suspected of being infected as Cummings was. A disgrace.

Police spoke to Dominic Cummings after Durham trip during lockdown

Edit. Timeline Dominic Cummings, coronavirus and lockdown

Nosferatu should be thrown into a lime pit.

 

[Jebus_lives]

Do as I say, not do as I do.

Ferguson makes an easy target because he clearly admitted his error and did the decent thing. No such examples within this Government.

Kuenssberg to the rescue. Without missing a beat.


Surely if you're too ill to look after your children you're too ill to drive 300 miles...

 

[davek]

But you are wasting your time with him Dave, hes a Tory twitter bot.

Bojo could murder his whole family in front of him and he would still offer to suck him off.

For me, the bigger offenders are the apologists who come up with stuff like "well, the UK figures are bad, but there's differences in the methodology between each country, so we'll have to wait and see".

FFS, there's a bloodbath going on here and they're giving the benefit of the doubt to the people standing over 60,000 bodies with a knife in their hands.

 

[maccavennie]

Kuenssberg to the rescue. Without missing a beat.


Surely if you're too ill to look after your children you're too ill to drive 300 miles...

Probably got a nice comfy limousine to drive him there mate.

Just another knobhead to go with all the other knobheads he works with. AKA The Knobhead Party.

 

[Connor]

More chance of Brexit being reversed than Eugenics Cummings being punished for this.

Kuenssberg to the rescue. Without missing a beat.


Surely if you're too ill to look after your children you're too ill to drive 300 miles...

It cannot be understated how much I hate her

 

[coollino]

Splat the rat