Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[davek]

Again, this seems like it something that been forgotten from right at the start of the spread of the virus. The virus attaches itself to ACE receptors within the lungs. South Asians have a higher frequency and they are also expressed more in black females. https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/sci/med/staff/cappuccio/publications/jhypert99whssaceid.pdf

Ok, if that's a bone fide piece of research and accepted with safe scientific conclusions, fine.

Now, has there been any research conducted on differences between the scores of different European ethnicities? Surely that would only be consistent.

 

[LocalNative]

62% of Britons fear virus more than economic meltdown with seven in 10 backing people who REFUSE to return to work

View attachment 85869


View attachment 85870

View attachment 85871

View attachment 85872

I should confess, it was done by the Daily Mail mate.

Don't believe a single thing that comes from that rag. Same rag that claimed yesterday beer gardens set to open from next week. Nonsense.

 

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

NHS England has announced that of the 383 new deaths announced today:

– 58 occurred on May 6
– 120 occurred on May 5
– 29 occurred on May 4

The figures also show 29 of the new deaths took place on May 1-3, 131 took place in April, while the remaining 16 deaths occurred in March, with the earliest new death taking place on March 19.

 

[peteblue]

That's pretty much my point. You have, understandably, reacted very defensively should anyone criticise what you are doing. How can anyone possibly do that? They don't know you. They don't know your circumstances. Yet you read tidbits in newspapers and rip to shreds the efforts of those who, almost without question, are busting their arse trying to tackle thing thing. What's more, you go as far as to suggest they are deliberately murdering people.

We've spoken above about the risk to ethnic minorities. Probably 90% of my wife's team are of African or Caribbean descent, and they're scared shitless at the moment, to the extent that even with a full dose of PPE, they're refusing to physically visit families where children are at risk, there's domestic violence going on, the families are struggling to find any food to eat, or any number of other shitty situations that form part of the statistics people slather over each day. Behind every one of those statistics sits a story of these kind of complexities that people rip apart from behind their computer. You think that's right?

Neither of us are knowing victory nor defeat in all this, which prompts me to keep my mouth shut. Maybe you should do likewise.

Brilliant post. The Roosevelt quote sums it all up.....

 

[LinekersLegs]

There is a well established relationship between inequality, ill health, and ethnicity. You wont dispute that? And cultural factors also play a part in transmission of infections.

On the issue of it being worthwhile investigating: I haven't said it isn't. I said that to be consistent you also have to have intra-'white' ethnic testing. I pointed to a disease suffered by some Celtic people in terms of lack iron as an example of that.

Absolutely and have posted about it several times in this thread.

Just don’t want people to assume anything right now about causes and so miss potential solutions, even if they don’t address all of an issue.

 

[BrendanGOT]

 

[ForeverBlue92]

And so it begins...

 

[Harryflashman]

That's pretty much my point. You have, understandably, reacted very defensively should anyone criticise what you are doing. How can anyone possibly do that? They don't know you. They don't know your circumstances. Yet you read tidbits in newspapers and rip to shreds the efforts of those who, almost without question, are busting their arse trying to tackle thing thing. What's more, you go as far as to suggest they are deliberately murdering people.

We've spoken above about the risk to ethnic minorities. Probably 90% of my wife's team are of African or Caribbean descent, and they're scared shitless at the moment, to the extent that even with a full dose of PPE, they're refusing to physically visit families where children are at risk, there's domestic violence going on, the families are struggling to find any food to eat, or any number of other shitty situations that form part of the statistics people slather over each day. Behind every one of those statistics sits a story of these kind of complexities that people rip apart from behind their computer. You think that's right?

Neither of us are knowing victory nor defeat in all this, which prompts me to keep my mouth shut. Maybe you should do likewise.

Off topic I know and Regardless of anything Else probably my favourite quote/poem of all time . Myself and a few old mates who experienced some tough times all have it in our homes , we’re now scattered around the world but that poem still reminds us all of difficult but different times , when all we could rely on was each other .

every time I read it , in whatever circumstances I find myself getting a little misty eyed .

For your info also what Mike atherton read when he left his role as England captain .

anyway , this lockdown hey

 

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

'Complacent' UK draws global criticism for Covid-19 response'

From Italy to Australia, critics have accused a “complacent” British government of “massively underestimating” the gravity of the coronavirus crisis after the UK reported the highest death toll in Europe.

While Rai Uno, the Italian state broadcaster’s flagship channel, gave prominent play to the news that Britain had recorded “more than 32,000 deaths, the highest total in Europe exceeding even Italy”, the Corriere della Serra daily went a good way further.

The situation in the UK was “like a nightmare from which you cannot awake, but in which you landed because of your own fault or stupidity”, the influential liberal-conservative paper said, adding that Britain seemed “a prisoner of itself”.

The country that was “the most reluctant in Europe to impose a lockdown has become the most cautious to start reopening”, with public opinion frightened of the consequences and Boris Johnson eager to avoid breaking Italy’s “sad record”.

Experts have warned against direct international comparisons of Covid-19 death tolls, saying different counting methods and many other factors make such exercises unreliable and it may take months if not years to draw firm conclusions.

However, Beppe Severgnini, an opinion writer on Corriere della Sera, said it seemed clear Britain had “lost the advantage that fate and Italy gave it – for example, the first two weeks of the outbreak in Italy when it was obvious the virus was spreading”.

The British government “did not pay enough attention to what was happening here, while Germany responded very well”, Severgnini said. “The two great British virtues – understatement and grace under fire – have turned out to not be a blessing.”

He said the UK was served neither by “a very weak cabinet” nor Johnson’s character: “He’s not Trump, though there is something similar in their approaches, but in this kind of challenge you need to really work hard on details. He’s not a details person.”

Beyond Italy – where the Covid-19 death toll, which does not include suspected cases, is just over 29,000 – German commentators were also critical. Britain has emerged as Europe’s “problem child” of the Covid-19 crisis, the DPA news agency’s London correspondent Christoph Meyer wrote.

“Only a few weeks ago, Britain had the reputation of a country in which the coronavirus was only spreading cautiously,” Meyer wrote in an opinion piece published in several newspapers in Germany and Austria.

“Politicians were already slapping each other on their backs and praising the health system, which was better prepared for the pandemic than any other country in the world. But that has quickly revealed itself to be a fallacy … There are now many signs that the government in London massively underestimated the pandemic.”

In a piece this week drawing on the British prime minister’s frequent deployment of classical allusions, the London correspondent of Spain’s left-leaning El País queried suggestions that the prime minister was some latter-day Odysseus.

“The conservative press tries to present Johnson as a man of reborn wisdom”, whose experience of Covid-19 had led him to “lash himself to the mast to resist the siren calls” of those demanding the lockdown be lifted soon, wrote Rafael de Miguel.

“In fact, it’s far from clear whether such determination is the fruit of careful calculation – or the result of simply closing one’s eyes when there’s no other option.”

Officials in Greece, which has been widely praised for its handling of the pandemic, have watched London’s handling of the crisis with disbelief, with epidemiologists also criticising the UK government’s initial embrace of a “herd immunity” policy.

The progressive daily Ethnos described Johnson as “more dangerous than coronavirus”, saying one of the crisis’s greatest tragedies was that “incompetent leaders” such as Johnson and Donald Trump were “at the helm at a time of such emergency”.

Before changing tack, Johnson “had gone out and essentially asked Britons … to accept death”, wrote the columnist Giorgos Skafidas.

Irish commentators also expressed dismay at the UK’s record. “Ministers of slim talent have bumbled through daily briefings and now big business-Conservative donors are impatient to reverse a shutdown so contrary to Brexiteer dreams,” Fionnuala O’Connor wrote in the broadly nationalist Irish News.

“Boris Johnson needs all his showman’s tricks now to sell the phasing out of a lockdown which was less than effective, at least in part, because of his stubborn libertarianism.”

Outside Europe, criticism has been strongest in Australia and New Zealand, both of which imposed strict, early lockdowns and have contained their outbreaks. Scott Morrison, the Australian prime minister, said no country that had pursued herd immunity had achieved it, describing the strategy as a “death sentence”.

David Hunter, an Australian-educated professor of epidemiology and medicine at Oxford University, told the conservative Sydney Morning Herald the British response was “not a model to follow. It has one of the worst epidemics in Europe and the world … Some aspects of the response have almost certainly contributed to the high mortality”.

Hunter particularly criticised the British decision – in contrast to Australia and New Zealand – not to close its borders early. Mike Rann, a former Australian high commissioner to Britain, told the paper Britain had “handled the earliest stages negligently”, lamenting “a shambles of mixed messaging, poor organisation and a complacent attitude that what was happening in Italy wouldn’t happen here”.

 

[LinekersLegs]

COVID-19 coronavirus may have jumped to humans as early as October, study says
Via the South China Morning Post: Coronavirus may have jumped to humans as early as October, study says. Excerpt:

The Covid-19 pandemic might have started as early as October, according to the latest research into the genetic make-up of the coronavirus.

The pathogen, formally known as SARS-CoV-2, is thought to have made the jump from initial host to humans some time between October 6 and December 11 last year, according to an article released on Tuesday and set to be published in an upcoming edition of the scientific journal Infection, Genetics and Evolution. The findings are based on analysis of more than 7,000 genome sequence assemblies collected from around the world since January. By examining the evolution of the mutations, researchers from University College London and the University of Reunion Island were able to rewind their molecular clocks to a common starting point.

]They were also able to identify the major mutations to the coronavirus, which has continued to evolve since making the jump to humans. While retrospective studies have suggested various dates for the first Covid-19 patient, government data seen by the South China Morning Post put the first confirmed infection at November 17. ]Based on information from the first whole genome sequence of the coronavirus – published by a laboratory in Shanghai in January – and other genome analyses, scientists had earlier concluded that SARS-CoV-2 most likely came from a bat and made the jump to humans via an intermediate animal some time in November.

]But by the time the latest study was conducted, late last month, the researchers had access to much more information via data-sharing platforms. They selected 7,710 assemblies, curated a data set of 7,666 and then analysed the emergence of genomic diversity over time. While there were variations in the mutations and evolutionary stages of the viruses they studied, the team was able to determine their most recent common ancestor (MRCA), which in turn gave them their new estimate for the start of the global health crisis.

]“These dates for the start of the epidemic are in broad agreement with previous estimates performed on smaller subsets of the Covid-19 genomic data using various computational methods, though they should still be taken with some caution,” the study said. In most countries, including Britain, the United States and Ireland, the genetic diversity of the samples essentially reflects the global diversity, suggesting the local epidemics came from independent introductions of the virus. However, China, where the outbreak was first reported, is a main exception to this pattern, where only a fraction of the global diversity can be found.]“The genomic diversity of the global SARS-CoV-2 population being recapitulated in multiple countries points to extensive worldwide transmission of Covid-19, likely from extremely early on in the pandemic,” the study said.

 

[Goat]

COVID-19 coronavirus may have jumped to humans as early as October, study says
Via the South China Morning Post: Coronavirus may have jumped to humans as early as October, study says. Excerpt:

Seen a few studies that are suggesting that THIS is currently the 2nd wave, the thinking is that the first wave was less lethal.

We need antibody tests yesterday.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

And your holding up this government as people who are busting a gut to stop the virus is a piece of Orwellian nonsense.

Because I don't believe the government is solely responsible for the UK's response to this crisis. A whole bunch of people from across society are working directly to tackle this, and I've no doubt they're working very hard in doing so. Indeed, despite the terribly work-shy image presented by the Tories during the Brexit negotiations, I strongly suspect that even the Tories are working hard on this issue.

And lastly, this cat thrown on the table of yours of me supposedly underestimating the contribution of BAME workers in the heath service: another utter 'kin disgrace of a tactic by you to muddy the waters. Please provide some evidence (ANY EVIDENCE) of my doing that.

That wasn't an attempt to do anything except underline the complexity of story that sits behind all of the statistics we're fed every day. When we're given a single number we're lulled into thinking the solution is a simple one. It's not. It never has been.

In short: dont try and take the piss mate. I've got the weight of you and what you're attempting to do on here.

Oh, and you never did address wtf it is that you're actually are doing to make a positive contribution to society over this crisis. Funnily enough.

Like you, I'm by and large doing bugger all except trying not to be a burden on those that are doing stuff. The difference is, I'm not using this fairly relaxed vantage point to tell those who are doing stuff what they should be doing. Believe it or not, on here, I'm not trying to do anything. I share the odd bit of content I find interesting, and try and make chewing the fat as enjoyable a way to pass the time as possible. No more, no less. Like everyone else in society, I'm probably crap at it like, but there's no agenda there.

 

[zzr45]

'Complacent' UK draws global criticism for Covid-19 response'

From Italy to Australia, critics have accused a “complacent” British government of “massively underestimating” the gravity of the coronavirus crisis after the UK reported the highest death toll in Europe.

While Rai Uno, the Italian state broadcaster’s flagship channel, gave prominent play to the news that Britain had recorded “more than 32,000 deaths, the highest total in Europe exceeding even Italy”, the Corriere della Serra daily went a good way further.

The situation in the UK was “like a nightmare from which you cannot awake, but in which you landed because of your own fault or stupidity”, the influential liberal-conservative paper said, adding that Britain seemed “a prisoner of itself”.

The country that was “the most reluctant in Europe to impose a lockdown has become the most cautious to start reopening”, with public opinion frightened of the consequences and Boris Johnson eager to avoid breaking Italy’s “sad record”.

Experts have warned against direct international comparisons of Covid-19 death tolls, saying different counting methods and many other factors make such exercises unreliable and it may take months if not years to draw firm conclusions.

However, Beppe Severgnini, an opinion writer on Corriere della Sera, said it seemed clear Britain had “lost the advantage that fate and Italy gave it – for example, the first two weeks of the outbreak in Italy when it was obvious the virus was spreading”.

The British government “did not pay enough attention to what was happening here, while Germany responded very well”, Severgnini said. “The two great British virtues – understatement and grace under fire – have turned out to not be a blessing.”

He said the UK was served neither by “a very weak cabinet” nor Johnson’s character: “He’s not Trump, though there is something similar in their approaches, but in this kind of challenge you need to really work hard on details. He’s not a details person.”

Beyond Italy – where the Covid-19 death toll, which does not include suspected cases, is just over 29,000 – German commentators were also critical. Britain has emerged as Europe’s “problem child” of the Covid-19 crisis, the DPA news agency’s London correspondent Christoph Meyer wrote.

“Only a few weeks ago, Britain had the reputation of a country in which the coronavirus was only spreading cautiously,” Meyer wrote in an opinion piece published in several newspapers in Germany and Austria.

“Politicians were already slapping each other on their backs and praising the health system, which was better prepared for the pandemic than any other country in the world. But that has quickly revealed itself to be a fallacy … There are now many signs that the government in London massively underestimated the pandemic.”

In a piece this week drawing on the British prime minister’s frequent deployment of classical allusions, the London correspondent of Spain’s left-leaning El País queried suggestions that the prime minister was some latter-day Odysseus.

“The conservative press tries to present Johnson as a man of reborn wisdom”, whose experience of Covid-19 had led him to “lash himself to the mast to resist the siren calls” of those demanding the lockdown be lifted soon, wrote Rafael de Miguel.

“In fact, it’s far from clear whether such determination is the fruit of careful calculation – or the result of simply closing one’s eyes when there’s no other option.”

Officials in Greece, which has been widely praised for its handling of the pandemic, have watched London’s handling of the crisis with disbelief, with epidemiologists also criticising the UK government’s initial embrace of a “herd immunity” policy.

The progressive daily Ethnos described Johnson as “more dangerous than coronavirus”, saying one of the crisis’s greatest tragedies was that “incompetent leaders” such as Johnson and Donald Trump were “at the helm at a time of such emergency”.

Before changing tack, Johnson “had gone out and essentially asked Britons … to accept death”, wrote the columnist Giorgos Skafidas.

Irish commentators also expressed dismay at the UK’s record. “Ministers of slim talent have bumbled through daily briefings and now big business-Conservative donors are impatient to reverse a shutdown so contrary to Brexiteer dreams,” Fionnuala O’Connor wrote in the broadly nationalist Irish News.

“Boris Johnson needs all his showman’s tricks now to sell the phasing out of a lockdown which was less than effective, at least in part, because of his stubborn libertarianism.”

Outside Europe, criticism has been strongest in Australia and New Zealand, both of which imposed strict, early lockdowns and have contained their outbreaks. Scott Morrison, the Australian prime minister, said no country that had pursued herd immunity had achieved it, describing the strategy as a “death sentence”.

David Hunter, an Australian-educated professor of epidemiology and medicine at Oxford University, told the conservative Sydney Morning Herald the British response was “not a model to follow. It has one of the worst epidemics in Europe and the world … Some aspects of the response have almost certainly contributed to the high mortality”.

Hunter particularly criticised the British decision – in contrast to Australia and New Zealand – not to close its borders early. Mike Rann, a former Australian high commissioner to Britain, told the paper Britain had “handled the earliest stages negligently”, lamenting “a shambles of mixed messaging, poor organisation and a complacent attitude that what was happening in Italy wouldn’t happen here”.

The problem is that the UK cannot see itself for what it is. We tell ourselves time and again that the NHS is the pride of the world, when in reality it's a second rate organisation, lurching from crisis to crisis hiding behind the regard the front line staff are held in, always telling us more funds are needed to prop up badly outdated and ineffective systems.

We have an ADHD media that zip from one crisis to the next causing absolute bedlam and creating issues where problems are fixed without deeper thought.

We've seemingly ditched religion in preference of social justice, which sees things like looking how to different ethnicities cope with viruses on a genetic level as racist and demanded that kids that think they are transgender because of some crap they read online are pandered to at our expense.

We bang on about the Blitz spirit but dont half love a cry and whinge. We claim we love the NHS but abuse it on a regular basis through lifestyle choices.

We pretend that we are some bastion of industry, but we're a bunch of shitarses incapable of looking after ourselves.

We brought this on ourselves over decades.

 

[Blueclouds]

NHS England has announced that of the 383 new deaths announced today:

– 58 occurred on May 6
– 120 occurred on May 5
– 29 occurred on May 4

The figures also show 29 of the new deaths took place on May 1-3, 131 took place in April, while the remaining 16 deaths occurred in March, with the earliest new death taking place on March 19.

Why is this being counted like this instead of releasing the correct numbers for the last 24 hours.

 

[LinekersLegs]

Seen a few studies that are suggesting that THIS is currently the 2nd wave, the thinking is that the first wave was less lethal.

We need antibody tests yesterday.

One reason why I am still a bit skeptical that the virus (or at least this version) was around much of the US earlier than late Jan/early Feb is since even if mischaracterized as “normal” pneumonia there should have been a noticeable spike in deaths.

Singing from the same hymn sheet on the antibody tests