Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

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You’ve got that backwards - society has to get to a point where most people can have enough security so that if the unexpected happens they can cope with it - that their businesses don’t crash, that they don’t lose their homes and self-esteem and do on.

Huge swathes of our economy seem to have been dependent on nothing bad happening to survive (never mind succeed). Since bad things happen al the time, this was never sustainable. This has to be fixed, otherwise the next time this happens we will be in even worse trouble.
Ideal world and all mate. That's not gonna happen same way its gonna be austerity pushed upon us for the money the Govt have used for bailouts etc. I agree with you but until that happens lockdowns can't happen like this again imo
 
I agree with this to an extent, but the law is based on precedent. Would the example above set a dangerous precedent if it was allowed: is it necessary or exercise?

Nobody wants a scenario where fines are being imposed needlessly or people going through the courts, and we certainly don't have zero tolerance here in the UK.

Provide advice and suggest compliance and most will; if they don't that's what the law is for. It's a situation where we need common-sense but also consistency.
It's about using common sense to assess risk for me Phil. Take that BBC article for instance. There were 3 cases described in it, 2 of which completely flouted social distancing rules. But it is the guy who wanted to see a meteorite shower that seems to have been picked on for attention, despite this breaking no rules other than non essential travel. Plus being at night he was hardly going to set any sort of precedent. These guys may be avid stargazers and this could have been a once in a lifetime opportunity for them. There was practically no risk of their actions aiding the spread of the virus so I really don't see the problem with what they've done. But of the 3 it get's highlighted for criticism, probably because it was the most wacky of the 3 cases.

I don't see it where I am, but you see and hear stories of gangs of youths roaming around cities, and I am convinced that get together's in peoples homes are common place amongst both family and friends. It's my brothers birthday today, the one having treatment for leukaemia , and I texted him before to wish him happy birthday, and he's round at his daughters house ffs. He's meant to be self isolating for 12 weeks. I've just texted him back to call him a 'kin idiot.

I agree with the point you make about precedent mate, I just think this was a bad example of it. But notwithstanding that, I still believe there are occasions when some low risk non compliance of the shutdown rules should be looked upon more leniently than others.

The zero tolerance I was referring to by the way was more about some of the posters in here.
 
It's about using common sense to assess risk for me Phil. Take that BBC article for instance. There were 3 cases described in it, 2 of which completely flouted social distancing rules. But it is the guy who wanted to see a meteorite shower that seems to have been picked on for attention, despite this breaking no rules other than non essential travel. Plus being at night he was hardly going to set any sort of precedent. These guys may be avid stargazers and this could have been a once in a lifetime opportunity for them. There was practically no risk of their actions aiding the spread of the virus so I really don't see the problem with what they've done. But of the 3 it get's highlighted for criticism, probably because it was the most wacky of the 3 cases.

I don't see it where I am, but you see and hear stories of gangs of youths roaming around cities, and I am convinced that get together's in peoples homes are common place amongst both family and friends. It's my brothers birthday today, the one having treatment for leukaemia , and I texted him before to wish him happy birthday, and he's round at his daughters house ffs. He's meant to be self isolating for 12 weeks. I've just texted him back to call him a 'kin idiot.

I agree with the point you make about precedent mate, I just think this was a bad example of it. But notwithstanding that, I still believe there are occasions when some low risk non compliance of the shutdown rules should be looked upon more leniently than others.

The zero tolerance I was referring to by the way was more about some of the posters in here.
I think the thing for me is that people are always going to cheat. There is always going to be a % of the population that will ignore the rules to an extent.
The rule is you can drive a short distance provided you are going to exercise. Now standing in a stationary position with a telescope isn’t exercise. You could argue that they are doing no real harm. But then you could argue that sitting in your mum’s garden for 30 mins isn’t real harm is it?
Now let’s loosen the rules slightly and say now you are allowed to go and sit in your mum’s garden for 30 mins. The cheats will hsve their mates round for a bbq.
then you say you are allowed small gatherings. The cheats will push it further.
The point is, the line is drawn. It is drawn where it was for a reason and that is public safety. The rules are set by people who know more about epidemiology than anyone who is breaking the rules.
The problem with people cheating is that, eventually everyone will cheat and, from a pure game theory perspective, everyone is worse off.
Cooperation is best for everyone long term.
 
It's about using common sense to assess risk for me Phil. Take that BBC article for instance. There were 3 cases described in it, 2 of which completely flouted social distancing rules. But it is the guy who wanted to see a meteorite shower that seems to have been picked on for attention, despite this breaking no rules other than non essential travel. Plus being at night he was hardly going to set any sort of precedent. These guys may be avid stargazers and this could have been a once in a lifetime opportunity for them. There was practically no risk of their actions aiding the spread of the virus so I really don't see the problem with what they've done. But of the 3 it get's highlighted for criticism, probably because it was the most wacky of the 3 cases.

I don't see it where I am, but you see and hear stories of gangs of youths roaming around cities, and I am convinced that get together's in peoples homes are common place amongst both family and friends. It's my brothers birthday today, the one having treatment for leukaemia , and I texted him before to wish him happy birthday, and he's round at his daughters house ffs. He's meant to be self isolating for 12 weeks. I've just texted him back to call him a 'kin idiot.

I agree with the point you make about precedent mate, I just think this was a bad example of it. But notwithstanding that, I still believe there are occasions when some low risk non compliance of the shutdown rules should be looked upon more leniently than others.

The zero tolerance I was referring to by the way was more about some of the posters in here.
I think because the other two are pretty clear cut that people don't question them: it's a clear and cut breach which the mainstay of the population will agree with.

Also, there is some sense of that they've accepted guilt that their actions and wrong, and hopefully (who knows...) they won't act in such a way again.

The final example is the more questionable decision, hence why it's more likely to be discussed, plus they show no real signs of guilt or realising that it is a breach:

"I can understand their argument but to deny us the right to exercise seems overzealous. It starts to become a night curfew..." It's nothing to do with the time.

Driving a distances as a group to star gaze, especially when they're openly carrying a telescope, is not exercise and nor is it an essential journey as per guidance.

I have sympathy because they may not have done any harm, but in my opinion (purely subjective) I get the feeling that they'll probably flout the guidelines again.

Most people abide by the rules and the majority of the rest will take guidance correctly; others, if you give them an inch then they will take a mile.

In reality, it is difficult for cops to act on people flouting the rules with out the information/intelligence to support them, so stops like this become the mainstay.
 
I think the thing for me is that people are always going to cheat. There is always going to be a % of the population that will ignore the rules to an extent.
The rule is you can drive a short distance provided you are going to exercise. Now standing in a stationary position with a telescope isn’t exercise. You could argue that they are doing no real harm. But then you could argue that sitting in your mum’s garden for 30 mins isn’t real harm is it?
Now let’s loosen the rules slightly and say now you are allowed to go and sit in your mum’s garden for 30 mins. The cheats will hsve their mates round for a bbq.
then you say you are allowed small gatherings. The cheats will push it further.
The point is, the line is drawn. It is drawn where it was for a reason and that is public safety. The rules are set by people who know more about epidemiology than anyone who is breaking the rules.
The problem with people cheating is that, eventually everyone will cheat and, from a pure game theory perspective, everyone is worse off.
Cooperation is best for everyone long term.
I think because the other two are pretty clear cut that people don't question them: it's a clear and cut breach which the mainstay of the population will agree with.

Also, there is some sense of that they've accepted guilt that their actions and wrong, and hopefully (who knows...) they won't act in such a way again.

The final example is the more questionable decision, hence why it's more likely to be discussed, plus they show no real signs of guilt or realising that it is a breach:

"I can understand their argument but to deny us the right to exercise seems overzealous. It starts to become a night curfew..." It's nothing to do with the time.

Driving a distances as a group to star gaze, especially when they're openly carrying a telescope, is not exercise and nor is it an essential journey as per guidance.

I have sympathy because they may not have done any harm, but in my opinion (purely subjective) I get the feeling that they'll probably flout the guidelines again.

Most people abide by the rules and the majority of the rest will take guidance correctly; others, if you give them an inch then they will take a mile.

In reality, it is difficult for cops to act on people flouting the rules with out the information/intelligence to support them, so stops like this become the mainstay.
You see I disagree. You speak as though all non compliance to lockdown is the same and I don't think it is. And therefore shouldn't be judged the same. You pulled me up before about zero tolerance but this is exactly what I was referring too.

We're not going to agree on this so I think it's best we leave it there. We're probably splitting hairs really in the whole scheme of things ;)
 
You see I disagree. You speak as though all non compliance to lockdown is the same and I don't think it is. And therefore shouldn't be judged the same. You pulled me up before about zero tolerance but this is exactly what I was referring too.

We're not going to agree on this so I think it's best we leave it there. We're probably splitting hairs really in the whole scheme of things ;)
Sorry mate I don’t really mean to come across as argumentative.
I’m talking about game theory mate than anything.
My point is genuinely not about zero tolerance. Just some of the behaviour I’ve seen is reckless. The flat below me has a birthday party yesterday. Multiple house. Multi generations. I’m all for people considering mental health and everything. I think common sense needs to prevail. But that, right now, is nowhere near common sense. Not even close. You extrapolate that across everyone (which you have to because you can’t have one rule for one and another for others) and it becomes dangerous.
Tbh I’m projecting a little. My personal circumstances are such that people being reckless hits a sore spot.
 
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