Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[Bruce Wayne]

I just been having a read of his background and experience. Years ago I was a guest speaker at a Procurement Conference and I posed a question to the delegates regarding levels of seniority and business experience within procurement. My train of thought being that in many large organisations, the people managing a supply route may well understand their role, but they face off with suppliers who have vastly more business experience, I.e. a procurement officer having to deal with a CEO. They get ripped off because while they are with the ‘big’ company, they are actually junior people and many if not all smaller companies are actually run by people who are head and shoulders above them. The guy you identified, while being a Procurement professional, joined from a small company and doesn’t appear to have overseen anything on the scale (value/complexity) seen within the NHS, nor does he appear to have any business operating experience. He may well be a really good guy, but looks a bit junior tbh....The Olympics guy is a banker but has 6 years of leading the London Olympics programme. Hopefully will have the clout to get things done quickly.....we‘ll see I suppose, but I hope he hits the ground running.....

And yet, in some interviews, he's basically said that it was only because this body was somewhat at arms reach and therefore presumably outside of traditional pay bands that he was recruited. It's a lot of speculation really, as we don't know what his job entails or what the real issues have been in getting hold of stuff. Facilities like the Nightingale/s seem to have been equipped at pretty short notice, yet the procurement of protective equipment and testing has been much less successful.

 

[peteblue]

The blame lies with all those from top to bottom mate and the buck stops with Boris because he is top of that tree.

The buck should stop with the person doing the job. If a surgeon makes a mistake and a patient dies, is that the fault of the Health Secretary or the surgeon. I am a firm believer in nailing the person who actually fails....

 

[Bruce Wayne]

As you alluded to earlier: this lot have failed to understand that their black ops in misinformation/disinformation is no longer "clever", it's now a huge negative issue for them and adds to the level of distrust.

It seems to have passed them by that it's kinda important for people to be able to trust their government. They may not always agree with them, but they should always be able to trust them to tell the truth.

 

[peteblue]

So it's all good as long as you dont get caught?

Not at all, just expected......WMD, 24 hours to save NHS, £350M for NHS......

 

[Bruce Wayne]

The buck should stop with the person doing the job. If a surgeon makes a mistake and a patient dies, is that the fault of the Health Secretary or the surgeon. I am a firm believer in nailing the person who actually fails....

I'd say even that's an over-simplification tbh. Given the huge pressure staff are under, I'm almost certain there will be medical mistakes made during this process, but that hardly makes those involved Harold Shipman. Fear of making mistakes, or even appearing to make them, usually results in people manipulating data or covering them up, which is hardly what we want.

 

[Disgruntledgoat]

Not at all, just expected......WMD, 24 hours to save NHS, £350M for NHS......

Alright Machiavelli.

 

[Disgruntledgoat]

The buck should stop with the person doing the job. If a surgeon makes a mistake and a patient dies, is that the fault of the Health Secretary or the surgeon. I am a firm believer in nailing the person who actually fails....

I'm not a huge fan of "nailing" anybody for making a mistake as it leads to cover ups and removes the potential to learn from it and improve...

...flagrant dishonesty to advance oneself or save your hide has rather the same effect. People tend to forgive those who ask for it of they're up front about their mistakes.

 

[mill]

The buck should stop with the person doing the job. If a surgeon makes a mistake and a patient dies, is that the fault of the Health Secretary or the surgeon. I am a firm believer in nailing the person who actually fails....

If the surgeon can’t do his job to the best of his ability because he is underresourced then it is absolutely the responsibility of the health secretary.

here is a question for you.

in a war, if one side has guns and the other only has access to knives because their generals won’t fund the procurement of guns then is it the soldiers fault that they lose or the generals?

 

[peteblue]

I'd say even that's an over-simplification tbh. Given the huge pressure staff are under, I'm almost certain there will be medical mistakes made during this process, but that hardly makes those involved Harold Shipman. Fear of making mistakes, or even appearing to make them, usually results in people manipulating data or covering them up, which is hardly what we want.

I agree, no one sets out to make a mistake deliberately....

 

[peteblue]

If the surgeon can’t do his job to the best of his ability because he is underresourced then it is absolutely the responsibility of the health secretary.

here is a question for you.

in a war, if one side has guns and the other only has access to knives because their generals won’t fund the procurement of guns then is it the soldiers fault that they lose or the generals?

Why do you suppose they would lose ?....

Battle of Isandlwana - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Harryflashman]

Not at all, just expected......WMD, 24 hours to save NHS, £350M for NHS......

pete I’ve said this from day one in a crisis like this it’s really important, more than ever , when they stand up at a podium and tell the public x, y and z that we believe them . Let’s be honest here , they aren’t being honest .

They’re being deceitful , they’re lying to us . Not in a manifesto , or on the side of a bus to win votes but in the middle of a national crisis with thousands dying , business going to the wall and people effectively under house arrest . We need our government to be honest , These lies matter and they continue to matter . I don’t care whatever political party this is that’s doing it , I swear to you I don’t , but this can’t continue unchallenged .

 

[Bruce Wayne]

If the surgeon can’t do his job to the best of his ability because he is underresourced then it is absolutely the responsibility of the health secretary.

here is a question for you.

in a war, if one side has guns and the other only has access to knives because their generals won’t fund the procurement of guns then is it the soldiers fault that they lose or the generals?

Did the generals spend all their money on lawnmowers and musicals?

 

[mill]

Why do you suppose they would lose ?....

Battle of Isandlwana - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Thank you.
That response is sufficient enough to tell me what level you are operating at.
The cognitive dissonance at play here is breathtaking.

 

[peteblue]

Thank you.
That response is sufficient enough to tell me what level you are operating at.
The cognitive dissonance at play here is breathtaking.

It was a stupid question and received the appropriate response......(was the answer the generals ?).....

 

[mill]

It was a stupid question and received the appropriate response......(was the answer the generals ?).....

It wasn’t a stupid question. I was using the ladder of abstraction to highlight a counter argument to your point that responsibility should lie with a surgeon rather than a health secretary.