Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

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Bruce Wayne said:
There was an interview a little while ago between Peston and Jonathan van Tam where not only was Peston so blatantly out of his depth, but he had absolutely no clue just how out of his depth he was, and continued blathering over van Tam. All of us have in many instances the same platform to air our ill-informed opinions as Peston does, and it's created this Dunning Kruger on steroids world where we believe because we have the ability to air our views, and the dirge of Question Time style clapping reinforces our ignorance via likes and retweets, that our opinions are just as valid as someone like van Tam. They're not. They're really not.

By all means read up on stuff and become as well informed as you can be. By all means chat about stuff on here if it helps you to pass the time (heaven knows, I do enough of that). None of that is what irks me. What irks me is the belief that any of us numpties on here can sit behind our computer and lecture Whitty, van Tam or any of those actually doing stuff on what they should be doing differently. We have absolutely no clue at all.



I've no problem at all with people having an opinion. As I said above, I enjoy bloviating on these threads as much as the next man, but it's surely important to remember that we are just letting off hot air in here. Hopefully it's helpful to do so, whether in terms of letting us pass the time or learning some new stuff, or simply joshing about with internet weirdos we've grown quite fond of. They're all perfectly valid ways of spending our time imo. Where I draw the line is lecturing people who are on the front line of this issue on what they should be doing differently. That's quite frankly insane.
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This ^^^^^^^^^^^^
 
Harryflashman said:
im not arguing with any of that and I think the lockdown is maybe pushing at the seams but decisions were made abd they seem counter to much of Europe .

Would cancelling Cheltenham have made any difference ? I’ve no idea I know personally someone whose died who was there and a neighbour who went returned and was ill and his wife has now been in hospital for about 9 days . Is there a link , well you’d think so and obviously that could be a minor anomaly but if it’s not that’s extended nationally it’s a huge impact isn’t it ?
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I dont know enough about the risks to have a fully educated opinion, but personally I'd have been very wary of going to something like Cheltenham at that time. With hindsight it obviously looks like the wrong decision for it to go ahead. The large scale events is probably the one where action should have been taken earlier.

I can see events being the very last thing to return to some form of normality. I think people will be cautious in going into large crowds again for some time.
 
peteblue said:
The immediate change of plan did concern me as I felt that we were being bounced into a different path by the media. I think it resulted in a much changed approach. I am happy with what we are doing with lockdown but was also happy with the initial let’s lockdown at the correct moment approach. We seem to be playing the politically safe let’s do whatever everyone else is doing game. It may be right, it may be wrong, I just don’t know. I don’t like this constant criticism and second guessing of the CSA,CMO and Government. If I were to fall ill I would rather be met at the hospital by the CMO than other academics, experts in unrelated fields, or someone from GOT......
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obviously you would pete so would I and if I had a football team I needed managing I’d rather Koeman or allardyce than people of GOT but it doesn’t mean I didn't pull my hair out at either of them .

you’ve spent the last few years writing off experts and putting forward your own experiences to challenge them . I like experts I tend to want to listen to them but if somebody told me different things over a couple of days I might be asking for a second opinion . Imagine sitting in a medical consultation with the divergence of strategy and advice we’ve seen lately , sometimes in only a couple of days . You’d be rightly concerned, I’m not dismissing them nor am in any position to say they’re wrong it‘s just felt less than perfect and I believe in such situations asking questions feels reasonable.
 
LouReedwalkonthewildside said:
After it looking like in all reality Trump would get re - elected, it now looks like he could be the biggest casualty.
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He will walk it. The USA could suffer 10million deaths and an imploded economy because of this virus and Trump will just point at China and Biden and say, they did it and he is a supporter of them, and the rest will be history....
 
Methuselah said:
The thing is, there is no manual for Covid-19. Many countries are doing things differently. At some point, when it's over, the various methodologies will be analysed and the manual will be written. At the moment, no one has much of a clue about what is the best approach. Trial and error (unfortunately) will provide the answer.
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This is it really, there is a micro and macro way of looking at things. Total social control works well, but likely unsustainable in the West for anything over perids, the approach so far given everyone was caught with their pants down has been a macro one. Then on a more micro level countries are different, population, borders densities, urbanisation, socialising, sporting culture, transport centers, traffic of foreign visitors, general transport, down to, social compliance, family interaction systems and living together.

One size wont fit all and you get the sense that each government will have to tailor its plan to mitigate and reduce risk according to planning around some of these facets in their individual societies. Perhaps even fedralise ares of a country, for example if there was a second break out in somewhere like London would it be possible to lock down London and say not Newcastle, just as one example.

We tend to think very black and white about this as absolutes, but i think there are creative ways of dealing with this when restrictions are limited particularly as we now have time to prepare.
 
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Bruce Wayne said:
There was an interview a little while ago between Peston and Jonathan van Tam where not only was Peston so blatantly out of his depth, but he had absolutely no clue just how out of his depth he was, and continued blathering over van Tam. All of us have in many instances the same platform to air our ill-informed opinions as Peston does, and it's created this Dunning Kruger on steroids world where we believe because we have the ability to air our views, and the dirge of Question Time style clapping reinforces our ignorance via likes and retweets, that our opinions are just as valid as someone like van Tam. They're not. They're really not.

By all means read up on stuff and become as well informed as you can be. By all means chat about stuff on here if it helps you to pass the time (heaven knows, I do enough of that). None of that is what irks me. What irks me is the belief that any of us numpties on here can sit behind our computer and lecture Whitty, van Tam or any of those actually doing stuff on what they should be doing differently. We have absolutely no clue at all.



I've no problem at all with people having an opinion. As I said above, I enjoy bloviating on these threads as much as the next man, but it's surely important to remember that we are just letting off hot air in here. Hopefully it's helpful to do so, whether in terms of letting us pass the time or learning some new stuff, or simply joshing about with internet weirdos we've grown quite fond of. They're all perfectly valid ways of spending our time imo. Where I draw the line is lecturing people who are on the front line of this issue on what they should be doing differently. That's quite frankly insane.
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I don’t disagree with either of the points you’d raised there either on Peston or in answer to me . I think at the end of this questions will be asked in a more formal environment and we might get answers . Where I think we do disagree is I just believe questioning the strategy at the moment feels a reasonable course of action .
 
ToffeeTim said:
I dont know enough about the risks to have a fully educated opinion, but personally I'd have been very wary of going to something like Cheltenham at that time. With hindsight it obviously looks like the wrong decision for it to go ahead. The large scale events is probably the one where action should have been taken earlier.

I can see events being the very last thing to return to some form of normality. I think people will be cautious in going into large crowds again for some time.
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It depends though doesn’t it. If you had your tickets, booked a really nice hotel and driver, and been invited into one of the hospitality suites or boxes, you would probably have gone. Today you would think twice and refuse, but at that time ?......
 
peteblue said:
It depends though doesn’t it. If you had your tickets, booked a really nice hotel and driver, and been invited into one of the hospitality suites or boxes, you would probably have gone. Today you would think twice and refuse, but at that time ?......
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It's hard to know, I'd say I might have gone. But I'd have been a bit conflicted definitely.
 
peteblue said:
It depends though doesn’t it. If you had your tickets, booked a really nice hotel and driver, and been invited into one of the hospitality suites or boxes, you would probably have gone. Today you would think twice and refuse, but at that time ?......
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i won’t criticise people for going to Cheltenham , how many on this forum would have gone to goodison If Arteta hadn’t had a test and the game had been on ? The issue is whether allowing it to be held was the right one . In hindsight it’s looking like it wasn’t , however what puzzles me are the statements coming out at the time that A large gathering wasn’t an issue . Clearly that’s completely changed now , so what’s caused that total reversal?
 
Harryflashman said:
I don’t disagree with either of the points you’d raised there either on Peston or in answer to me . I think at the end of this questions will be asked in a more formal environment and we might get answers . Where I think we do disagree is I just believe questioning the strategy at the moment feels a reasonable course of action .
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Of course. This is such a massive, complex, and unprecedented issue that it would be unbelievable if mistakes weren't made, and as you say, there will almost certainly be some kind of process at the end of this where behaviours are assessed. We can do our stuff on here all we like, and I love doing so as much as you do, but neither of us will be called as witnesses in that inevitable post-mortem, and with good reason :-)
 
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