Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[BlueToff]

They underestimated it. Hugely. They thought they could shield the elderly and that everyone under the age of 60 would see a 0.1% death rate or something and it'd just be a heavy seasonal flu.

And I could understand that very easily if this was the approach they took in January - hell, I personally thought it would be much less dangerous than even that. But the problem was they still held the same approach in March, when it should have been very clear from Italy that this was something very different and much more dangerous.

Yeh I can't disagree with this and it's why I am skeptical of the experts even though I'll do as instructed just like nearly everyone else in the country is.

If they had taken this approach in January, and the gov had started doing things such as increasing the NHS's capacity, increasing testing, having extra hospitals such as Nightingale built, have those extra ventilators and the required PPE for staff, we could have been in a much stronger position to 'protect the economy' and save lives - which in a roundabout way is the same thing anyway.

 

[BlueToff]

Once lockdowns are over - is it basically herd immunity strategy for Europe or are the powers that be going to enforce future lockdowns?

When you see the damage to the economy I cant imagine any further lockdowns after this one.

Even China isnt locking back down and there will still be many cases and deaths over there regardless of what their propaganda says.

Think the aim has to be just to keep the current lockdown in place until there's a sustained decline. From there, a gradual easing of measures over the course of 1-2 months.

In that sense, it may put off a second wave long enough for it to be manageable for the respective health services.

 

[Tubey]

Once lockdowns are over - is it basically herd immunity strategy for Europe or are the powers that be going to enforce future lockdowns?

When you see the damage to the economy I cant imagine any further lockdowns after this one.

Even China isnt locking back down and there will still be many cases and deaths over there regardless of what their propaganda says.

If they do it properly, they reintroduce lockdown measures as and when needed. They'll also rely on the populace maintaining social distancing in general for the next 12 months.

The net result of this pandemic over the course of the next year or so is either 8 in 10 of us catching it or a vaccine. There's no other realistic outcome. The question is how you manage the situation until we get to that outcome.

We're in a unique position as an island nation to manage this pretty well. Countries like China have authoritarian regimes, so they can artificially kick the can down the road, but ultimately they'll be swamped too. It can't be stopped, it can only be managed.

 

[Tubey]

Yeh I can't disagree with this and it's why I am skeptical of the experts even though I'll do as instructed just like nearly everyone else in the country is.

If they had taken this approach in January, and the gov had started doing things such as increasing the NHS's capacity, increasing testing, having extra hospitals such as Nightingale built, have those extra ventilators and the required PPE for staff, we could have been in a much stronger position to 'protect the economy' and save lives - which in a roundabout way is the same thing anyway.

They couldn't realistically have taken the approach in January. We'd seen SARS etc. turn out to be false dawns, so it's unrealistic to expect the mobilisation against COVID-19 that early.

However, by around 23-25 February it was abundantly clear what this was because of Italy, and certainly by March there was no excuse whatsoever for the government going for that Mitigate strategy. It was, quite simply, a catastrophic error and we wasted the weeks we could have had preparing properly due to the clear warning Italy had gave us.

 

[tsubaki]

Makes you wonder how much cultural identity and any sort of traditional political ideolgy a nation tends to follow would affect the healthcare system its populace is willing to embrace and how effectively it could be implemented in that nation

I’d settle for ones that weren’t designed to enrich people.

Well, that's what was said isn't it?

Right now is about increasing the capacity as much as possible so that when/if a second wave comes the NHS can handle it and there's not a need for another two-three months of lockdown.

I didn't read into it at all like you did. They seemed to present the situation as it is and it's a pretty crap situation. They're not wrong that the only long-term solution is - one way or the other - for most people to have an immunity to this? That doesn't mean we should return to life just yet or even in the foreseeable future.

If they were complete unknown people (the FT comment and more importantly Leslie) posting their opinions then I’d be a lot more likely to give them the benefit of the doubt and say that yes, although they didn’t mention testing, properly expanding the NHS and contact tracing they probably meant it.

However when you have a people like Leslie who are also saying what a good job the government is doing (whilst having a go at everyone who is questioning them), I am not sure why anyone should take them on faith.

What they are probably doing is calling for the lockdown to lift, then when it does they’ll go back to pretending that we have enough PPE, testing capabilities and so on whilst slating the people who disagree on the grounds that this is no time for politics.

 

[Barnfred 55]

He hasn't avoided scrutiny and it should be at the end of this when we should vent our frustration with this government.

Not many democratic governments will survive this. Johnson is lucky that he has a big majority and has only just been elected. Four years is a very long time in politics and in the event they do lose the next election it's unlikely to be CV-19 that has been their undoing.

Unless of course senior government officials are found guilty of gross misconduct or even criminal actions in the handling of the virus. Johnson's own position would be untenable and public opinion could possibly bring about an election

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

Once lockdowns are over - is it basically herd immunity strategy for Europe or are the powers that be going to enforce future lockdowns?

When you see the damage to the economy I cant imagine any further lockdowns after this one.

Even China isnt locking back down and there will still be many cases and deaths over there regardless of what their propaganda says.

Can't get away from herd immunity it's how happens is key, we were just going to allow it to happen, then someone had a word about Italy and how the NHS was unable to cope with such a strategy and the Government wet themselves, and have ever since. We have a reactive government little to no foresight into controlling events, dangerous!

 

[jamieni]

If they do it properly, they reintroduce lockdown measures as and when needed. They'll also rely on the populace maintaining social distancing in general for the next 12 months.

The net result of this pandemic over the course of the next year or so is either 8 in 10 of us catching it or a vaccine. There's no other realistic outcome. The question is how you manage the situation until we get to that outcome.

We're in a unique position as an island nation to manage this pretty well. Countries like China have authoritarian regimes, so they can artificially kick the can down the road, but ultimately they'll be swamped too. It can't be stopped, it can only be managed.

My hope is that they can find some reasonably effective treatments for those with the worst symptoms in the coming months. I think social distancing will be the new norm for quite some time to come. I saw a health advisor in the US being quoted as saying that it’s quite possible it will be Autumn 2021 before we see mass gatherings again.

 

[Walken]

Not many democratic governments will survive this. Johnson is lucky that he has a big majority and has only just been elected. Four years is a very long time in politics and in the event they do lose the next election it's unlikely to be CV-19 that has been their undoing.

Unless of course senior government officials are found guilty of gross misconduct or even criminal actions in the handling of the virus. Johnson's own position would be untenable and public opinion could possibly bring about an election

they have pretty much all had a bump in approval ratings

 

[Bruce Wayne]

But that's just the point isn't it? All people are saying and criticising them for is that they got it ridiculously wrong - so much so that the course shouldn't have needed changing because the course we were initially on was so stupid in the first instance.

Even the intellectual colossus that is Robert Peston could see the obvious problems with the "mitigate" strategy, 12 March...

Robert Peston: How risky is Boris Johnson’s maverick coronavirus strategy?

There is no question more important for all of us than whether Boris Johnson, Dominic Cummings and Matt Hancock are right that there is no alternative to letting coronavirus run its course in the UK, and to control the peak of the epidemic so that it falls in summer when the NHS may have the...

www.itv.com

... yet these highly trained, experienced experts couldn't? If that's not valid ground for criticism of their incompetence then I don't know what is.

It begs the question why you and Robert Peston have never worked in this field in your entire lives. Talk about a waste. Join the movement. Lead us to the promised land.

 

[Tubey]

It begs the question why you and Robert Peston have never worked in this field in your entire lives. Talk about a waste. Join the movement. Lead us to the promised land.

Ah so you have nothing then. Ok.

 

[Neiler]

Its amazing how the British media, influence, blame, and minimise the thinking of the public narrative, reaction and psychology, be an interesting psychosocial study after this :

Minimising:



Euro Bashing:



Generation/Culture Bashing:



Jingoism:



Miscellaneous Nonsense:

 

[Bruce Wayne]

If they do it properly, they reintroduce lockdown measures as and when needed. They'll also rely on the populace maintaining social distancing in general for the next 12 months.

The net result of this pandemic over the course of the next year or so is either 8 in 10 of us catching it or a vaccine. There's no other realistic outcome. The question is how you manage the situation until we get to that outcome.

We're in a unique position as an island nation to manage this pretty well. Countries like China have authoritarian regimes, so they can artificially kick the can down the road, but ultimately they'll be swamped too. It can't be stopped, it can only be managed.

Christ sake. Look in the mirror man. If the experts know what's good for them, they'll do just what Tubey on the internet says. Ffs.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Ah so you have nothing then. Ok.

I have nothing, that's right. I've never studied pandemics, I've never worked on pandemics. Neither have you, so stop thinking you have the first clue.

 

[jamieni]

Can't get away from herd immunity it's how happens is key, we were just going to allow it to happen, then someone had a word about Italy and how the NHS was unable to cope with such a strategy and the Government wet themselves, and have ever since. We have a reactive government little to no foresight into controlling events, dangerous!

Letting a high percentage of the U.K. population catch the virus at one time, knowing that a significant proportion are going to require hospitalisation is just nuts. Yes it might rip through the population more quickly but the human cost is so severe, and with that comes it’s own huge economic damage.

I’m not privy to what the original strategy was, and I’m sure the CMO et al are experts so I’m not pointing the finger at them. Things moved so rapidly and the evidence base is growing all the time with new information coming to light daily.