Current Affairs Coronavirus Politics Thread

[dead_soft]

My point is that it doesn’t really matter. Both Policy wise and Operationally it is being driven by the CS and the Medics, the politicians are just the visible mouthpiece and the ones who sign the cheques. I’d like to know precisely who is responsible, operationally for delivering these tests. We employ thousands of CS and PHE and NHS people on six figure salaries, which one is responsible for doing this ?....

You genuinely think the government in charge are not well, in charge?

 

[peteblue]

You genuinely think the government in charge are not well, in charge?

In any organisation, especially one as big as the U.K. government, while the ones at the top are responsible for the ultimate results, the responsibility for elements of the overall results rest down within the organisation, that’s why it exists, that’s why the Individuals exist.....

 

[dead_soft]

In any organisation, especially one as big as the U.K. government, while the ones at the top are responsible for the ultimate results, the responsibility for elements of the overall results rest down within the organisation, that’s why it exists, that’s why the Individuals exist.....

No one has suggested that the advisors aren't there for advice but it is government that sets policy and government that takes the responsibility. Your little twist to try and absolve Johnson from responsibility as much as possible should be bizarre but isn't.

 

[tsubaki]

In any organisation, especially one as big as the U.K. government, while the ones at the top are responsible for the ultimate results, the responsibility for elements of the overall results rest down within the organisation, that’s why it exists, that’s why the Individuals exist.....

It isn't, pete. In any organization the top are responsible (and well renumerated) for deciding policy and direction; the workforce is responsible for implementing the policy.

If the policy is stupid, no amount of work from those at the bottom are going to be able to make a success out of it so its clearly unfair for them to bear responsibility for its failure. It is of course the case that loads of organizations, especially in British industry, do try to blame the workers but that does not make it true.

 

[peteblue]

It isn't, pete. In any organization the top are responsible (and well renumerated) for deciding policy and direction; the workforce is responsible for implementing the policy.

If the policy is stupid, no amount of work from those at the bottom are going to be able to make a success out of it so its clearly unfair for them to bear responsibility for its failure. It is of course the case that loads of organizations, especially in British industry, do try to blame the workers but that does not make it true.

The people I am referring to are at the top. They are the top people in every quango, government Dept etc. I’m not talking about the ‘workers’, I’m talking about people who have CEO, COO, Director, Director General, Permanent Secretary etc etc, and there are hundreds and hundreds of them. As I pointed earlier in the oreganogram there are at least two people in the PHE who specifically have responsibility for special or urgent programme delivery, it is their job.....

 

[tsubaki]

The people I am referring to are at the top. They are the top people in every quango, government Dept etc. I’m not talking about the ‘workers’, I’m talking about people who have CEO, COO, Director, Director General, Permanent Secretary etc etc, and there are hundreds and hundreds of them. As I pointed earlier in the oreganogram there are at least two people in the PHE who specifically have responsibility for special or urgent programme delivery, it is their job.....

There are pete, and if the problems were confined to their area and they'd clearly messed up a sensible direction then they would bear personal responsibility.

The problem with this is that the problems are widespread, and even if you only use Johnson's own words there is no evidence that PHE (or anyone else) weren't doing what he told them to do. The common denominator in all these failures - communications, wider testing policy, "herd immunity", PPE provision and so on - is No.10 and that is where blame should lie.

 

[peteblue]

There are pete, and if the problems were confined to their area and they'd clearly messed up a sensible direction then they would bear personal responsibility.

The problem with this is that the problems are widespread, and even if you only use Johnson's own words there is no evidence that PHE (or anyone else) weren't doing what he told them to do. The common denominator in all these failures - communications, wider testing policy, "herd immunity", PPE provision and so on - is No.10 and that is where blame should lie.

I spent a good proportion of my professional life digging into failures like this. The people at the very top may like to think they are in charge, but invariably they have little actual input into delivery. I understand how people would see it the way you suggest, but believe me or not, the reality is that someone on the Board/First Line of the PHE and others Departments are the ones actually responsible, and they know it......

 

[peteblue]

I’d start by having a few words with this guy...

”But Professor Paul Cosford, emeritus medical director of PHE, appeared to pass the buck.

He said the organisation had 'played our part' by ensuring there were tests for people in hospital.

'We've played our part,' he said, 'which is to make absolutely certain that that testing is spread throughout Public Health England's laboratories, throughout NHS laboratories, is available to support the clinical treatment of patients who need it.'

He also told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: 'Our role has always been to - and I speak from Public Health England - make sure our labs are doing what they need to do and we're rolling tests out to the NHS for clinical treatment of patients.

'There is some capacity that is available within that in order to start testing NHS staff and that's being done.

'You've heard about the 2,000 yesterday - nowhere near where we need to get to but it's a good start - and then there's the drive-through systems that are beginning.'

Asked why other testing facilities were not being used, Professor Cosford said PHE is most closely involved in NHS testing before adding: 'The second (strand) is how we can use all of those laboratories, all of that capacity, to boost up at least 100,000 tests a day, hopefully more.'

Professor Cosford said he would expect this work to be in place 'over the coming days and a small number of weeks'. “.....

 

[tsubaki]

I spent a good proportion of my professional life digging into failures like this. The people at the very top may like to think they are in charge, but invariably they have little actual input into delivery. I understand how people would see it the way you suggest, but believe me or not, the reality is that someone on the Board/First Line of the PHE and others Departments are the ones actually responsible, and they know it......

Pete its possible they failed; its not possible they failed and it caused other all the other failures we have seen. There is only one level - the real "very top" - who could ever cause that to happen.

Look at Hancock today, coming out with a number of tests being done by the end of April thats four times higher than the PM's chums were briefing a couple of days ago - this is not normal, even for them. Someone is just making a load of crap up and then doling out out, day after day.

 

[peteblue]

Pete its possible they failed; its not possible they failed and it caused other all the other failures we have seen. There is only one level - the real "very top" - who could ever cause that to happen.

Look at Hancock today, coming out with a number of tests being done by the end of April thats four times higher than the PM's chums were briefing a couple of days ago - this is not normal, even for them. Someone is just making a load of crap up and then doling out out, day after day.

The policy has changed. It looks as though PHE were trying to keep everything under central control and they have been told to get off their arse and use every available means and lab. If I had a £ for every time someone like Professor Cosford told me he did everything he could, while trying to keep a lid on a failing organisation, then I would have a lot more money than I currently have....Dont get me wrong, Hancock is a lightweight waste of space, being fed a line by very clever people, he just doesn’t have the nous nor experience to see through it. But TBF not many politicians could.....

 

[Blues Harp]

I spent a good proportion of my professional life digging into failures like this. The people at the very top may like to think they are in charge, but invariably they have little actual input into delivery. I understand how people would see it the way you suggest, but believe me or not, the reality is that someone on the Board/First Line of the PHE and others Departments are the ones actually responsible, and they know it......

I’d start by having a few words with this guy...

”But Professor Paul Cosford, emeritus medical director of PHE, appeared to pass the buck.

He said the organisation had 'played our part' by ensuring there were tests for people in hospital.

'We've played our part,' he said, 'which is to make absolutely certain that that testing is spread throughout Public Health England's laboratories, throughout NHS laboratories, is available to support the clinical treatment of patients who need it.'

He also told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: 'Our role has always been to - and I speak from Public Health England - make sure our labs are doing what they need to do and we're rolling tests out to the NHS for clinical treatment of patients.

'There is some capacity that is available within that in order to start testing NHS staff and that's being done.

'You've heard about the 2,000 yesterday - nowhere near where we need to get to but it's a good start - and then there's the drive-through systems that are beginning.'

Asked why other testing facilities were not being used, Professor Cosford said PHE is most closely involved in NHS testing before adding: 'The second (strand) is how we can use all of those laboratories, all of that capacity, to boost up at least 100,000 tests a day, hopefully more.'

Professor Cosford said he would expect this work to be in place 'over the coming days and a small number of weeks'. “.....

What did you actually do in your "professional life?"

 

[peteblue]

What did you actually do in your "professional life?"

I oversaw the delivery of multiple very large, complex and expensive projects, for industry and governments across the world....

 

[Blues Harp]

I oversaw the delivery of multiple very large, complex and expensive projects, for industry and governments across the world....

What "projects " were you overseeing? Or is that classified info?

 

[peteblue]

What "projects " were you overseeing? Or is that classified info?

The Defence and Power projects were classified, the rest were in Medical, Transport and High end Technology.....

 

[Blues Harp]

The Defence and Power projects were classified, the rest were in Medical, Transport and High end Technology.....

Ahhhh....weapons of death then......arms seller? Hide behind the protection of the establishment then. You cant even be honest.

Fake news that mate

 

[jaycee]

Praising this government during the crisis is like praising Savile for fixing it for kids