Strange, didn’t realise football was a 1v1 sport.
Copa America 2019
- Thread starter Mikey_Fitzgerald
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Strange, didn’t realise football was a 1v1 sport.
YoboCopter
Player Valuation: £50m
You know its time for bed when you class messi as terrible and bobby martinez as the second coming
Eh?
I mean, the one v S'ton last season was awful. But that pen the other night was right in the corner.
davek
Player Valuation: £150m
You know what I mean: 4 World Cup Finals and 5 Copa Americas and no success - in a period when Argentina were one of the favourites to win both.
An utter calamity of an international career. He was found out on the international stage. Could never translate excellent club football form on the biggest stages of all. Any player dubbed a genius and "best of all time" and who plays for a great national team has to take silverware internationally.
As said: the worst best player ever.
TheBigIguana
Player Valuation: £100m
He's lost two Copa finals on penalties and lost a World Cup final in ET because they missed chances. A final they wouldn't have played in if he hadn't dragged them through the group stage on his own. The "Messi is poor for Argentina" narrative is the most contrived BS I've ever seen. And Argentina have been favorites because of him. Take him out of the set up from 2014 on and they probably don't even qualify for the World Cup.
davek
Player Valuation: £150m
That's just excuses.
He won nothing.
A fantastic Champions League player. That will be his legacy.
YoboCopter
Player Valuation: £50m
Not la liga no?
TheBigIguana
Player Valuation: £100m
Evaluating the legacy of an individual by team success in a team sport is the most daft thing that any sport fan can do. It's absolute nonsense and those who do it disqualify their opinions pretty quickly.
davek
Player Valuation: £150m
davek
Player Valuation: £150m
...and yet we have always done that. Otherwise it's all just subjective about what 'style' a player has.
It's simple for me: Messi is not a leader. All great players are. He's not one of the greats.
TheBigIguana
Player Valuation: £100m
Yeah people have always done that and it has always been stupid.
A good example of that is in baseball people used to value the number of wins a pitcher had then in the last ten years realized that's dumb because you can't win if the hitters don't score and the pitcher has no impact on that.
If Messi scores two but Otamendi has 2 OGs and concedes a penalty did Messi do a bad job? Obviously no but if you are going to use team success as the metric than he didn't do good enough. It isn't hard to see how dumb that is. Football is sort of moving past that but with Messi people have no actual way to criticize him so as I said they've contrived this narrative which you unsurprisingly subscribe too.
Agree with this tbh. Its not the be all and end all of the "Greatest of all time discussion" but his competitors for the title are/were all leaders at club and international level.
He's still unbelievable for Barcelona, but I think not really proving it elsewhere will always be a stick to beat him with. Be it a relatively small stick.
Cristiano has done it at every club and for his national team in comparison even if he is probably technically inferior to Messi.
davek
Player Valuation: £150m
It's a generational thing too. I've seen Cruyff, Maradona and Ronaldo (POR) / Messi (and Zidane in between).
There's no one better than Maradona on that list. Not even close. Messi and Ronaldo (POR) are seen as greats and 'best of all time' by millennials who know no better.
davek
Player Valuation: £150m
Massive stick for me: the biggest stage in football and Messi has always had stage fright. It's defined him, international football (more especially the WC)
TheBigIguana
Player Valuation: £100m
2016 Messi and Ronaldo are both in a final of an international competition. Messi loses on PKs so he isn't good enough and Ronaldo wins despite being hurt after a half hour and it's a testament to his individual greatness. That makes zero sense.
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