CONFIRMED: Moyes Leaving - All Reaction Here

[Little Ralphy]

That's not a fair comparison, if we could/would sell players to the rs we'd have rid of Gueye for 8 million, McFadden for 14, Vaughan for 23, and Arteta for 17 and have loads to spend.

15m for Joe Allen, fk me.

Yeah Swansea must have checked the decimals on that offer a few times before accepting.

But it was like us getting so much for Lescott in fairness. Distin was the natural replacement of sorts, but unfortunately Heitinga and Billy didn't really come off.

 

[Allezfan]

No reason at all aside from the weight of Premier League history. There is technically "no reason" I can't sleep with a Victoria Secret supermodel tonight but I have to say from the way the day has started it isn't looking likely.

Premier league history is an incredibly small sample size, though. There are plenty of teams who have done better than Moyes' Everton on smaller budgets (Montpellier in france, derby in the 70s etc etc). But whenever I bring them up, which is often, they're dismissed because we are only meant to look at ten years of the top six in one league and not the other 99.9999999999999% of footballing precedent.

We're 17th in net spend (over last five years; we're 15th last ten years), 13th in gross and probably something like 10th-13th if you sum wages and net spend. So there is really no way to carve it up that gets us into the top half. Let's say we're 15th in spending and Moyes has us outperforming that by around 8 places (on average).

If you judge entirely by the cost of our squad (in wages and transfer/agent fees) and ignore how we raised that money then we're 8th or 9th. That's how much Moyes is outperforming on the field. Two or three palces.

Where Moyes is really out performing everyone is off the field. And yeah we're up with arsenal in managing to assemble an expensive squad and fund it mostly by outgoings. Well done, him. But that's five of those eight palces and since we already have this squad, that works already done for the time being.

 

[Moomin]

The new manager has to be Lee Marvin, just look at the success he got with a dozen misfits.

Imagine the success he could have with the likes of Baines.

 

[Timak]

Premier league history is an incredibly small sample size, though. There are plenty of teams who have done better than Moyes' Everton on smaller budgets (Montpellier in france, derby in the 70s etc etc). But whenever I bring them up, which is often, they're dismissed because we are only meant to look at ten years of the top six in one league and not the other 99.9999999999999% of footballing precedent.

But this is the time period we are operating in. It is all very well saying Derby won in the 1970's but there weren't oligarchs pumping literally hundreds of millions of pounds into rival teams. There are 3 teams who have qualified for the Champions League every year since Moyes took over. That leaves one space free and Manchester City (£200m wage bill, £150m average net spend on fees), Liverpool (£130m wage bill, £40m average net spend), Spurs (£95m wage bill, £20m average net spend) competing with Everton (£60m wage bill, £2.5m average net spend). That really isn't an open competition.

If you judge entirely by the cost of our squad (in wages and transfer/agent fees) and ignore how we raised that money then we're 8th or 9th. That's how much Moyes is outperforming on the field. Two or three palces.

Where Moyes is really out performing everyone is off the field. And yeah we're up with arsenal in managing to assemble an expensive squad and fund it mostly by outgoings. Well done, him. But that's five of those eight palces and since we already have this squad, that works already done for the time being.

But even if we accept your strange methodology of ignoring how the squad was assembled it still isn't a fair comparison. Over a 10 year period only Manchester United, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool have won more points than Everton. So we have the 5th best points total on about the 10th highest spend. That is phenomenal. No other manager in Premier League history (i.e the time period we are in) can match that performance.

And by the way there is a heck of a drop off between the spending of Manchester United, Chelsea, City, Liverpool, Arsenal, Villa, Tottenham and Everton. Our budget is closer to Southport's than it is to Liverpool's yet we've won more points over the last 3.5 years.

It is like racing Ferraris in a Focus and still beating half the field.

 

[Moomin]

But this is the time period we are operating in. It is all very well saying Derby won in the 1970's but there weren't oligarchs pumping literally hundreds of millions of pounds into rival teams. There are 3 teams who have qualified for the Champions League every year since Moyes took over. That leaves one space free and Manchester City (£200m wage bill, £150m average net spend on fees), Liverpool (£130m wage bill, £40m average net spend), Spurs (£95m wage bill, £20m average net spend) competing with Everton (£60m wage bill, £2.5m average net spend). That really isn't an open competition.




But even if we accept your strange methodology of ignoring how the squad was assembled it still isn't a fair comparison. Over a 10 year period only Manchester United, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool have won more points than Everton. So we have the 5th best points total on about the 10th highest spend. That is phenomenal. No other manager in Premier League history (i.e the time period we are in) can match that performance.

And by the way there is a heck of a drop off between the spending of Manchester United, Chelsea, City, Liverpool, Arsenal, Villa, Tottenham and Everton. Our budget is closer to Southport's than it is to Liverpool's yet we've won more points over the last 3.5 years.

It is like racing Ferraris in a Focus and still beating half the field.

I like that bit i have highlighted, slight problem with the Focus now though. Someone has sold the CD player, spare wheel and exhaust now.

 

[Seamus Colemole]

But this is the time period we are operating in. It is all very well saying Derby won in the 1970's but there weren't oligarchs pumping literally hundreds of millions of pounds into rival teams. There are 3 teams who have qualified for the Champions League every year since Moyes took over. That leaves one space free and Manchester City (£200m wage bill, £150m average net spend on fees), Liverpool (£130m wage bill, £40m average net spend), Spurs (£95m wage bill, £20m average net spend) competing with Everton (£60m wage bill, £2.5m average net spend). That really isn't an open competition.




But even if we accept your strange methodology of ignoring how the squad was assembled it still isn't a fair comparison. Over a 10 year period only Manchester United, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool have won more points than Everton. So we have the 5th best points total on about the 10th highest spend. That is phenomenal. No other manager in Premier League history (i.e the time period we are in) can match that performance.

And by the way there is a heck of a drop off between the spending of Manchester United, Chelsea, City, Liverpool, Arsenal, Villa, Tottenham and Everton. Our budget is closer to Southport's than it is to Liverpool's yet we've won more points over the last 3.5 years.

It is like racing Ferraris in a Focus and still beating half the field.

You're right, it is a great achievment. Which is why it pisses people off when we lose and the escuses of "oh but they had a player on the bench worth more than 3 of ours" and the like get trotted out.

Its not how much a player costs that determine how good they are. Money only makes it easier to buy better players, it doesnt guarantee you'll buy better players.

Or like in your analogy : its like racing Ferraris in a focus, beating half the field then crashing due to driver error but blaming the fact the car wasn't good enough despite it being good enough previously to beat those Ferraris.

 

[LTblue]

Mourinho is just the type to spring a surprise and end up at Everton in the summer after Moyes sails off to Chelsea.

 

[Mrk]

You're right, it is a great achievment. Which is why it pisses people off when we lose and the escuses of "oh but they had a player on the bench worth more than 3 of ours" and the like get trotted out.

Its not how much a player costs that determine how good they are. Money only makes it easier to buy better players, it doesnt guarantee you'll buy better players.

Or like in your analogy : its like racing Ferraris in a focus, beating half the field then crashing due to driver error but blaming the fact the car wasn't good enough despite it being good enough previously to beat those Ferraris.

 

[Allezfan]

But this is the time period we are operating in. It is all very well saying Derby won in the 1970's but there weren't oligarchs pumping literally hundreds of millions of pounds into rival teams. There are 3 teams who have qualified for the Champions League every year since Moyes took over. That leaves one space free and Manchester City (£200m wage bill, £150m average net spend on fees), Liverpool (£130m wage bill, £40m average net spend), Spurs (£95m wage bill, £20m average net spend) competing with Everton (£60m wage bill, £2.5m average net spend). That really isn't an open competition.

Sure, it's difficult. That's why you pay managers the best wages in europe: to do really difficult things.

Montpellier were up against vastly worse budget differences when they won the french league last year. So are most spanish teams when they play Real. It's like Death says we can't pat ourselevs on the back for beating mega rich Man U at the same time as excusing ourselves for losing to compartative paupers like reading or leeds. Either finances matter or they don't. If you can beat these teams in the league why not in cups?

Villa and QPR have spent fortunes, does that mean every manager higher than them in the league is a genius?

 

[njligernj]

But it was like us getting so much for Lescott in fairness. Distin was the natural replacement of sorts, but unfortunately Heitinga and Billy didn't really come off.

Bit harsh on Heits. I know he's been awful this season but I think I'd still consider him a good buy overall. He gave us some good years. Not as good as Lescott but that's probably why he was 1/3 of the price.

Premier league history is an incredibly small sample size, though. There are plenty of teams who have done better than Moyes' Everton on smaller budgets (Montpellier in france, derby in the 70s etc etc). But whenever I bring them up, which is often, they're dismissed because we are only meant to look at ten years of the top six in one league and not the other 99.9999999999999% of footballing precedent.

Fair enough I see your point and it's both correct (Prem is a tiny sample size and sample size is very important) and off-base (because I don't believe any era is comparable to this one as to be relevant). Hell if someone managed to do better than Moyes in Spain right now I don't know if I'd consider it apples for apples since it's really just the Prem that has teams which cost a billion pounds finishing outside of the top four. It's a very unique situation -- not just in history but even today.

 

[bignev23]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21431345

Jose says

 

[Ralphie Boy]

Too many posts to read but would it just not be easier to advertise Everton Manager job in the papers:

1. There is enough of us potential managers on here to apply.

2. Might just put Moyes in a place he does not like to be, where he has to make a decision, sign or go!

 

[griffla]

Perfect Ralphie my boy. F***ing perfect

 

[Goat]

Advertise the Everton job in the papers.

LOL

 

[D410]

Advertise the Everton job in the papers.

LOL

Wanted: Football Manger with CLF aspirations, must be prepaid to achieve success under penniless owner.