Bruce Arena Era 2: Electric Boogaloo. USMNT Super Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
I'm not sure about that. Can't imagine many NFL or NBA body-types amounting to much on a football pitch. It's not like the rest of the planet doesn't have seven-footers or meat-walls.

And the presumption that America is naturally the best stems much from the fact that it mostly only competes against itself in sports which the rest of the world barely cares about. At the Olympics, it is pretty average, relative to population, and despite the stupefying amounts of money it devotes to youth sport.

Football relies on athletic distinction more and more these days, but it is still so much more about decision-making than raw pace or strength. The lower leagues are full of top athletes who don't have a clue what to do with the ball. Possession, or defending and breaking down defences, has much more to do with vision and positioning intelligence than outrunning or outmuscling the other side. Sort of like how baseball players flame out if they can't hit a curveball, even if they can run laps around the rest of the team.

Have you seen some of the athletes we produce? Even in my tiny state alone, look at guys playing college football like Tyrann Mathieu (aka Honey Badger) and Trindon Holliday, these kids could boss the soccers if they had opportunity. Even Odell Beckham Jr was a club soccer player, but he quit because he'd have to move to another state to play at a club his level, which may be the norm in England but not in the US.

That's three world class American Football players from the same College Football team (like three from Barnsley, etc), who each could have easily dominated other sports.
 
The problem in the US is soccer is an upper middle class sport by and large. It takes dosh to play on those select teams, and lower income kids just go to the other sports. The focus on winning doesn't help either. Football is by and large a game of skill, not athletic ability - although it helps. You don't have to be LeBron. But you need LOTS of skills training. Pulisic is great b/c his father was a pro, raised him that way, and then got him Dortmund's academy as soon as possible where he got a real footballing education.

Can you imagine if clubs paid American kids to play soccer (which is more or less what colleges and some high schools do for top football athletes), what effect that would have on the sport?
 
Do lower income kids just not play at all? Or are they just not scouted? Being middle-class surely has its advantages, but it's not like extreme poverty has held back Brazil, or Nigeria, or the former Yugoslavia among many others.

Don't play, nada, unless they're scouted out and someone else pays for their club team. (Dempsey)

There's no access to coaching unless you pay the costs of club teams. There's no culture to breed players in sandlot play. There's no access to playing fields without registering for a league, and even if you can do this can you get access to good coaching?

Culture is what will breed the game, but you can't buy culture. You can, however, pay for good coaching and better access to the sport for low income kids. This will take 2-3 generations to fix, the only question is whether we've actually begun the fix or not.
 
Just a few thoughts.
I've only lived here for 10 years but there are some obvious things I've noticed.
I coached kids here up to about U11 or 12. I couldn't figure out what I was being asked to teach them. I had no idea what a sweeper/stopper system was. The facilities were great but the kids didn't really know anything about the game (at least not the game everyone else knows). I tried to teach them stuff like 'Headers and volleys', '3 and in' etc. Tried teaching them games they could play at home with just one or two others, there was no interest from the other coaches or kids. By the time they were 12, it was all about beating the other school or town. Every team had one or two showboaters and they got all the attention. I know this happens everywhere but the other kids really got no attention. All the kids played FIFA and knew about the stars which is very different to when I lived here for a while in the 90's. There needs to be a way to tap in to this and get them to want to sleep with their Messi jersey on and just want to kick around with their neighbors or siblings in their spare time.

Many might disagree but I think the whole NCAA system needs to be binned off for soccer. Focus on club academies. Maybe tie in online courses and scholarship partnerships with college but these kids need to be living football from their mid teens if they want to succeed.

And finally, there needs to be a pyramid system in professional football, there needs to be 100's of regional teams in that system, each with a feeder system of local clubs. I'm all for a franchise system to get the leagues going and that system can be kept in place with salary caps etc. but there has to be relegation, otherwise there's no fear and a bunch of players can go out against Trinidad and fail to tie when it matters.

So you can fire Giulati or Arena and replace them but really that's just rearranging the deckchairs on the titanic.
 
You still have to watch your gash team play next year and suffer through all that hype and I don’t.

Hope your supporters have fun getting sparked by Putin’s street gangs. We’ll be at the beach.

Jokes on you fam, I dont even support England.

But the Russian vermin will be taught a lesson off the pitch next Summer.

Lets see how much joy they get when they aint stealing snidey digs on "normal England fans".
 
Have you seen some of the athletes we produce? Even in my tiny state alone, look at guys playing college football like Tyrann Mathieu (aka Honey Badger) and Trindon Holliday, these kids could boss the soccers if they had opportunity. Even Odell Beckham Jr was a club soccer player, but he quit because he'd have to move to another state to play at a club his level, which may be the norm in England but not in the US.

That's three world class American Football players from the same College Football team (like three from Barnsley, etc), who each could have easily dominated other sports.

I really doubt that they would have. Americans have this odd, parochial presumption that something like the "dream team" in basketball is the natural order of things - that Americans are inherently just better than anyone else at sports, and would be at footy too, if only they took it seriously.

But like I've said, the obverse is true - that this appearance of dominance comes from having been dominant in sports where there is little if any international competition. And if Europeans and South Americans and Africans even knew about led alone competed in sports like basketball or baseball or American football, this illusion would evaporate in a hurry. Against a global degree of competition (like in football), I doubt any of the people you mentioned would be household names - they might struggle even to hold a starting spot. Compared with making an impact in world football, American sports are an absolute breeze. Even strictly within the United States, the talent pool is not even close to being fully maximized - due to class and cultural factors, competitive athletes in the US are overwhelmingly African-American, which these days is probably not even 10% of the population. And being dominant at a small, provincial sport against such an already internally-limited talent pool does not automatically translate to anything on the world stage - it's really a minor accomplishment, in relative terms. It's like listening to Australians or Sri Lankans or Canadians insisting they'd win the world cup if only the LeBron of Aussie Rules or cricket or ice hockey had gone with footy.

Beyond the fallacy that raw athletics (which is what people here mean when they refer to LeBron, or... your NFLers) would automatically get you anywhere in football (soccer), where vision, awareness, and intelligence mean so much more, the presumption that the US naturally belongs alongside Brazil, Germany, Spain, France, Italy in football and would already be there but for the fact LeBron went for basketball instead is just absurd. Top American athletes don't even face a fraction of the competition that exists in world football. There is no doubt that there is room for improvement, but I don't really think it's because American kids choose other sports - for all the class restrictions, the number of youth soccer participants in the US already dwarfs most countries in Europe. It's just that they aren't very good, and are not going to get very good with American coaching. The US football system is not capable of producing top players, and just pumping more kids (or LeBron) into this system won't change anything. If Americans traveled like the rest of the world does, you'd have a better chance, but I doubt more than a handful of US kids will go to European academies, where they can earn real money, though those few who do will probably all be the top US players in a few years. But even then, there's no reason to think the ceiling for US soccer is any higher than it is for countries like, say, Mexico, or Turkey, or Japan. You're just not as divinely good at sport as you think you are, and if it wasn't for CONCACAF, you'd barely ever qualify.
 
Just a few thoughts.
I've only lived here for 10 years but there are some obvious things I've noticed.
I coached kids here up to about U11 or 12. I couldn't figure out what I was being asked to teach them. I had no idea what a sweeper/stopper system was. The facilities were great but the kids didn't really know anything about the game (at least not the game everyone else knows). I tried to teach them stuff like 'Headers and volleys', '3 and in' etc. Tried teaching them games they could play at home with just one or two others, there was no interest from the other coaches or kids. By the time they were 12, it was all about beating the other school or town. Every team had one or two showboaters and they got all the attention. I know this happens everywhere but the other kids really got no attention. All the kids played FIFA and knew about the stars which is very different to when I lived here for a while in the 90's. There needs to be a way to tap in to this and get them to want to sleep with their Messi jersey on and just want to kick around with their neighbors or siblings in their spare time.

Many might disagree but I think the whole NCAA system needs to be binned off for soccer. Focus on club academies. Maybe tie in online courses and scholarship partnerships with college but these kids need to be living football from their mid teens if they want to succeed.

And finally, there needs to be a pyramid system in professional football, there needs to be 100's of regional teams in that system, each with a feeder system of local clubs. I'm all for a franchise system to get the leagues going and that system can be kept in place with salary caps etc. but there has to be relegation, otherwise there's no fear and a bunch of players can go out against Trinidad and fail to tie when it matters.

So you can fire Giulati or Arena and replace them but really that's just rearranging the deckchairs on the titanic.

This is tangential, but one thing I hate about Yanks is the perverted names they come up with for soccer positions
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Welcome

Join the Everton conversation today.
Fewer ads, full access, completely free.

🛒 Visit Shop

Support Grand Old Team by checking out our latest Everton gear!
Back
Top