Bruce Arena Era 2: Electric Boogaloo. USMNT Super Thread

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The USA is the world's best for sports. It's ridiculous to pretend otherwise. Can't believe someone is dissing their Olympic record which they lead the world in. They just don't have the footie culture of other nations.

Please. The United States has the world's largest economy and third largest population. Per capita, they are dwarfed by most leading European countries, led alone somewhere like the Caribbean or Australia.

If the rest of the world took the NFL, or basketball, or baseball remotely seriously, Americans would look pretty average at these in a hurry. As it stands, the NBA was gruesome before European players and coaches arrived, and they barely even stack up in baseball against the Dominicans, an impoverished island with less than 3% of its population.

The premise that "America is best at sports therefore America should be the best at football" is just silly. There are more kids playing football in the US than just about anywhere else. They just aren't very good at it yet. No doubt the US will improve, but the notion that its rightful place is somehow eventually at the top is simply wrong.
 
It's a fortune to play comp. or select. The only people on our team when we won the AAU were all from families that were able to afford it.


Even the officiating, and coaches, like @USABlue said, it is usually a 17 year old coaching 14 year olds..

Unless you pay 8500 a year at U-13 level

Do lower income kids just not play at all? Or are they just not scouted? Being middle-class surely has its advantages, but it's not like extreme poverty has held back Brazil, or Nigeria, or the former Yugoslavia among many others.
 
Do lower income kids just not play at all? Or are they just not scouted? Being middle-class surely has its advantages, but it's not like extreme poverty has held back Brazil, or Nigeria, or the former Yugoslavia.
No, they don't. Almost all leagues here you have to pay to be a part. There are pitches in the South, but not really else where. Every park has a basketball court, baseball field, and Am. football is readily, and culturally, available in school. Soccer costs a lot of money. Like I said, if you want to play for a team, it'll be almost 10k here. It's simply unaffordable

It's not extreme poverty like those countries. It's a mentality of "how can I make as much money with what I have" frame of mind.
 
Do lower income kids just not play at all? Or are they just not scouted? Being middle-class surely has its advantages, but it's not like extreme poverty has held back Brazil, or Nigeria, or the former Yugoslavia among many others.
They play but they're stuck playing in small local leagues with high school kids reffing and some parent with barely any coaching background as a coach. The whole youth setup in the US right now is all about making money, not developing talent. To gain access to better competition and coaching you have to pay alot of money to play on "select" or "travel" teams. For example Tim Howard got very lucky in his youth as his single mother saved up $25 dollars so Tim could go to a single training session with a former US assistant goalkeeping coach. Howard impressed him so much the coach offered to train him for free.
 
Please. The United States has the world's largest economy and third largest population. Per capita, they are dwarfed by most leading European countries, led alone somewhere like the Caribbean or Australia.

If the rest of the world took the NFL, or basketball, or baseball remotely seriously, Americans would look pretty average at these in a hurry. As it stands, the NBA was gruesome before European players and coaches arrived, and they barely even stack up in baseball against the Dominicans, an impoverished island with less than 3% of its population.

The premise that "America is best at sports therefore America should be the best at football" is just silly. There are more kids playing football in the US than just about anywhere else. They just aren't very good at it yet. No doubt the US will improve, but the notion that its rightful place is somehow eventually at the top is simply wrong.
Still should have beaten Trinidad. All else is irrelevant to us US supporters.
 
They play but they're stuck playing in small local leagues with high school kids reffing and some parent with barely any coaching background as a coach. The whole youth setup in the US right now is all about making money, not developing talent. To gain access to better competition and coaching you have to pay alot of money to play on "select" or "travel" teams. For example Tim Howard got very lucky in his youth as his single mother saved up $25 dollars so Tim could go to a single training session with a former US assistant goalkeeping coach. Howard impressed him so much the coach offered to train him for free.
to follow up if Tim had performed poorly at just that one session or the coach not offered to waive the fee Tim would've never made it. His mom couldn't afford the $25 per session fee
 
A comment like this patronises Iceland

Maybe, but England-Iceland is a pretty fair comparison to USA-T&T. A football-mad country like England with millions of players and a 10-tier league pyramid should never be losing to a country the size of Leicester, just like the USA should never be losing to a couple tiny islands.
 
But do you genuinely think it will? When do we stop talking about how the US have potential to be great if they get their act together and just start admitting that they aren't really arsed about the sport and that's reflected in the fact you haven't qualified for the World Cup.

I'm not attempting to wind anyone up, but the same old argument gets trotted out about US football but in reality you're no further forward than say 5 years ago, in-fact you appear to have gone backwards. I'm happy to admit that the England team are overrated and play turgid terrible football but there seems a reluctance, or at least there did before this game for Americans to admit the same about their national team.

Don't consider this a wind-up, it's a fair q. And you are presenting it to people who have been critical of both men and the women's teams.

There are a bunch of reasons, many of which you can check out in autopsies and post-mortems by Grant Wahl, SoccerByIves, etc. that I don't want to rehash and appear to take credit for.

As mentioned here, competition with other sports. Football is way down on the list compared to others. As noted, it's expensive as well, to get to traveling competitive youth squads. I messaged a friend this morning, his son is on a rather good team that has won multiple tourneys in the Southwest of the US... he "does it on the cheap" when traveling, opting for airBNBs over hotels, etc. Costs $10k per year. Per him, academy bumps up to between $20k to $60k.

So we've done a great job in removing access to top level training and development from the vast majority of youth playing, particularly sons of blue collar or no collar working folks or immigrant families from footballing countries with children. (And there is till not enough money to be made endgame for Nike or Adidas to come in like they do for hoops.) By comparison, average household income in the US is like $50k.

We have a good ifnot great infrastructure for identifying and moving up youth who show exceptional abilities in other sports, just not football.

FFS even Paraguay's pro clubs all have multiple levels of youth squads down to U14s, obligatory for top and second tier, and Asuncion is dotted with "Mi Canchitas", parts in urban areas where a parking lot is given turf, lights, walls,and nets so kids and adults can play. (Should also be noted there are pitches across the street from CONMEBOL-Fifastan - it's own sovereign territory, mind you - with rotting wooden goals. Shows you how much of FIFA"s goodwill investment actually goes to the kids playing in developing nations)

As Men In Blazers call it "Soccer. America's sport of the future. Since 1972".

The thing is, even with WC elimination, the culture will still continue to improve. Thanks to teh interw3bz people today can watch top flight Prem, La Liga, Bundesliga, Champs league, Euro league, etc. Kids will see football at a club level and see it as a sport with an endgame similar to NFL or NBA, rather than MLS. It makes it more attractive.

Single biggest issue is sorting out our youth development and finding ways to identify, include and develop young talent.
 
I'm in holiday, which is why I keep posting. People can't afford to play here. It's that simple. Hopefully, someone takes my phone away before I further embarrass myself.
 
This entire qualification run has been the truest reflection of US Soccer that I've seen in a long time. I firmly believe all the performances before this, WC 2014 especially have been a combination of luck and passion. We had neither in this competition.

Population is not an excuse. Iceland and Belgium just qualified. Belgium has a population equal to Massachusetts. Iceland has a population about half the size of Boston, Massachusetts. It's culture. We like american football here, we like hockey... we like basketball. It's cheaper and more accessible, and not to mention cooler to play the aforementioned sports rather than soccer, unless it's just casual play through high school. The only chance you have is getting into an elite pay to play system with actual coaches, and not just the guy who teaches US History and coaches soccer on the side.

We are far too used to being the best at every sport. Meanwhile we are miles and miles away from competing at a World Cup level. Our best player by a long shot is Christian Pulisic, and lo and behold, he came up through a proper academy system in Europe.

Our development program and our pay-to-play system is broken and the only way to fix it is to level the playing field financially. I don't see that happening anytime soon. The only way to be recognized as a talent and for a top coach to bring that talent to the forefront, shape and perfect it is to pay a LOT of money and travel a LOT to play. This rules out a LOT of poor children/families, so playing at a higher level is never an option. Your best bet is to hope to get an athletic scholarship from playing in high school, play for UCLA and get a finance degree, then be an actuary for the rest of your life after graduation.
 
There’s another kind of money problem here too. Why are we charging such ridiculous prices for Gold Cup and Copa America tickets? Why are we holding a critical home qualifier in a city with a huge Costa Rican population to cancel out the home field advantage? Why is US Soccer so laser focused on revenue and not competitiveness and accessibility? This has been going on since before some of our players were born.
 
the money problems continue. found out more from my amigo. Youth tourneys have "Play and Stay" arrangements where in order ot play in a tourney in, say, San Diego, you have to stay at a certain hotel. Room prices are inflated 10-20% over what you or I would pay if on vacation with our significant others (well, those of us that have them... ) with the money kicked back to host club.

imagine that, football used as a moneymaking scheme...
 
NFL salaries are terrible though, relatively speaking, with very few exceptions. They barely have a union, most contracts aren't even guaranteed, and most careers only last two or three years before injuries take their toll. NFL prospects could earn more, with vastly greater advertising potential, and have longer, healthier careers in soccer if they were most importantly A) even remotely good enough but also B) willing to move abroad. If you are 2+ metres tall or weigh 17+ stone, you can't do anything but basketball or American football. It's not like the rest of the world has been waiting all this time for Americans to provide footballers of this build.

The basic level fundamental tools to be a professional athlete do not get you very far in soccer. Despite increasing physical requirements, it is a more cerebral sport.

Or, put another way, which American sports team does Pirlo, Messi, Maradona, Xavi, or Scholes walk into? Basketball and the NFL are not the reason why Americans built like this don't make it in football.

You're simply thinking of Linemans, Linebackers, Fullbacks and Quarterbacks.... Most WR, RB, CB, and Safeties tend to have quick feet, great pace, and are in the 5'8-6'0 range. Their bodies are conditioned for football but they are supreme athletes. These guys don't train to fit in the mold of soccer players but could, just like a lot of the more athletic soccer players train for soccer not to build athletic skills for American football. A lot of these athletes if soccer were chosen could potentially end up as great players.

For Basketball, again, you are thinking about a small portion of players who play the sport. Most who play the sport aren't even close to 6'5 and don't make it pro, but are extremely athletic. Across the country their are college basketball programs with a lack of height, and guys over 6'5. However they are filled with quick, coordinated players under 6'5, with the guards being largely under 6'2 down to the 5'8 range. I'm not saying it's a great chance these guys make great soccer players, but their is definitely a drain of talent potential.

Additionally, no, the difference in compensation between soccer and american football isn't even close. A two year career in the NFL at the minimum will far exceed what the average MLS player makes over the course of career. The floor is higher, and the ceiling is much higher. The minimum yearly salary is 64,500 in the MLS, you make that in NY, LA, Chicago, and that's not a great salary at all. The minimum in the NFL is 465,000. Average players in the MLS have to play years to make what comparably skilled players in American football make. Their isn't more advertising potential either. Only the top of the top make any kind of endorsement money that is sizable in US soccer.

You seem to just be talking about stuff you don't understand or know much about at all. I would advise to just give it up because I can refute almost anything I've seen you post. I don't attempt to try to diagnose the issues in the English youth system or wherever you are from because I wasn't raised their, and I don't know the ins and outs like you would. I think you should consider doing the same when it comes to discussing American soccer. You're woefully ignorant.

Do lower income kids just not play at all? Or are they just not scouted? Being middle-class surely has its advantages, but it's not like extreme poverty has held back Brazil, or Nigeria, or the former Yugoslavia among many others.

No, lower income kids do not play much at all. In the inner cities, the two sports are basketball and football. Basketball courts are all over cities for kids to play pick up games in, participate in recreational leagues, or just go an practice whenever they like. Football has a much bigger following and you find a lot of older men in cities trying to be role models for kids and keep them off the street, doing a lot to just get them to go to practice. People look at it as a way out, be it just for a scholarship or professional.

For soccer, that kind of thing doesn't exist. Parents have to usually drive kids decent distances to practices, even further to games. It's set up up in a way that does not facilitate impoverished people to play. If you are the child of a single parent, and they work multiple jobs... Then you are likely eliminated from playing soccer because it places such a burden on the parents in driving to and from practice and games. Their aren't fields in cities, and if their is, most of them are not open to the public.

This is America, this isn't Brazil, Nigeria, or Yugoslavia. The culture is completely different and the structure around the sport is completely different. The peope playing and attracted to the sport are completely different. It will take a very unique system to create an effective youth system here due to schooling, and the NCAA being essentially used as player development also.

Again, I'd advise you to just stop talking about things you clearly know nothing about. It's a bit tiring to read.
 
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This entire qualification run has been the truest reflection of US Soccer that I've seen in a long time. I firmly believe all the performances before this, WC 2014 especially have been a combination of luck and passion. We had neither in this competition.

Population is not an excuse. Iceland and Belgium just qualified. Belgium has a population equal to Massachusetts. Iceland has a population about half the size of Boston, Massachusetts. It's culture. We like american football here, we like hockey... we like basketball. It's cheaper and more accessible, and not to mention cooler to play the aforementioned sports rather than soccer, unless it's just casual play through high school. The only chance you have is getting into an elite pay to play system with actual coaches, and not just the guy who teaches US History and coaches soccer on the side.

We are far too used to being the best at every sport. Meanwhile we are miles and miles away from competing at a World Cup level. Our best player by a long shot is Christian Pulisic, and lo and behold, he came up through a proper academy system in Europe.

Our development program and our pay-to-play system is broken and the only way to fix it is to level the playing field financially. I don't see that happening anytime soon. The only way to be recognized as a talent and for a top coach to bring that talent to the forefront, shape and perfect it is to pay a LOT of money and travel a LOT to play. This rules out a LOT of poor children/families, so playing at a higher level is never an option. Your best bet is to hope to get an athletic scholarship from playing in high school, play for UCLA and get a finance degree, then be an actuary for the rest of your life after graduation.

Hockey is not cheaper to play than Soccer. Not even close. However, they don't really get any athletes either. Sorry to nitpick, but I agree with most of your post, especially the last paragraph.
 
Please. The United States has the world's largest economy and third largest population. Per capita, they are dwarfed by most leading European countries, led alone somewhere like the Caribbean or Australia.

If the rest of the world took the NFL, or basketball, or baseball remotely seriously, Americans would look pretty average at these in a hurry. As it stands, the NBA was gruesome before European players and coaches arrived, and they barely even stack up in baseball against the Dominicans, an impoverished island with less than 3% of its population.

The premise that "America is best at sports therefore America should be the best at football" is just silly. There are more kids playing football in the US than just about anywhere else. They just aren't very good at it yet. No doubt the US will improve, but the notion that its rightful place is somehow eventually at the top is simply wrong.


Off topic, but the NBA was gruesome before the European players and coaches arrived? Care to elaborate? I'd love to hear this one. I hope it is just as accurate as all your US youth football analysis. You are wandering off into the deep end here. I think you should just swim back to shore and stay there. This is like me talking about Rugby or Cricket. I know nothing of those sports, so I choose not to speak on them.

Also have you seen how baseball mad the Caribbean are? Baseball is a dying sport in this country and struggles with youth participation now.
 
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