Blame The Players Thread

How much of the blame would you give the players for the sacking of Martinez/Koeman and the current

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Tipp blue said:
Yet it's happened to Martinez Koeman and seems to be happening again at the moment. There is something rotten within Everton causing unrest amongst the players, 3 managers now and it's the same old story, start well and get crapper and crapper, it's not that long ago we were ahead of United and going well, then the Derby happened and it's been horrific since. Something causes it over and over again, so you have to look at who's been at the club for these 3 mentioned managers, you have Baines, Jagielka and Coleman as the players and coaching side there's Duncan Ferguson, which is who my money would be on.
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I put the blame at 50/50 between the manager and the players. However, what is causing it (in my opinion) is bringing in managers with questionable ability, who don't see their future here for more than 2 or 3 years and a group of players who are fully aware of that and probably have a similar attitude.

Under Moyes, aside from his ability to have us in the top 5-7 regularly, he had the ability to discipline the players, keep them in line and he also brought in the right kind of player. He built up a side of players who had their limitations but were honest and hard working, and he added some flair to that with the likes of Arteta and Pienaar. When someone stepped out of line - e.g Drenthe, they were finished at the club.

The game has changed even more than ever since Moyes was here with the influx of the TV money, with transfer fees and wages skyrocketing. The modern day footballer doesn't care much for the club he plays for, and is only willing to put in constant effort if he has the incentive to do so - e.g win trophies, or has a manager that is not going to stand for poor discipline. Moyes had a massive argument with Drenthe about turning up late for a meeting. Martinez on the other hand promoted a culture of low discipline according to Gareth Barry:

"Everything slipped last season, really: timekeeping, dress codes, training."

Under Martinez, our direction was lost and with Moshiri coming in and hoping to just spend and spend without a sensible strategy it has backfired massively. We now have a huge wage bill, with players who aren't committed to the club, with managers who have huge flaws anyway. When a culture of under performing is allowed to develop with players on huge salaries regardless of how they do, this is what you are going to get.
 
Disliking losing should be a default position for any competitive athlete, be they amateur or professional. If you accept that statement, then it is very, very hard not to place a big chunk of blame on the players because at the moment they don't appear to be remotely fussed about the result.

Winners don't require any external influence from a coach or manager to persuade them into making an effort - they motivate themselves every single day simply by not liking losing. When players talk about the manager giving (or failing to give) them confidence and motivation, it simply highlights that the player in question is mentally weak.

Lots and lots of blame on the players at this point, in my opinion. Silva definitely has to take responsibility, and accept the consequences, for his his failures thus far, but the idea that the players are somehow not at fault is utterly deranged.
 
We have a major problem and, it is arguable, that we are in a far worse position now than when Moshiri first arrived. This is because we have wasted millions on highly paid players and the first job must be to get them off the payroll before even thinking about the rebuilding job.

Realistically, the next window should see far more outs than ins and will, undoubtedly, be followed by another very average season, identifying areas for improvement etc.

I think it will be 3 years minimum before we can even think of trying for a top 6 finish - and that is conditional on us getting everything right with appointments, signings and outgoings between now and then.

It is a mammoth task and, tbh, I trust Brands but I think Silva is well out of his depth.
 
I do believe the players have a certain % of accountability taking into account the mega salaries they receive I opted 40% but when I got thinking , I would say 20% is more accurate ?

I believe it is a number of issues that causes players to react positively or negatively - 1) ,Board level a lack of direction , very dodgy and reactionary decision making this breeds discontent and confusion throughout the club at all levels 2) Four managers since 2016 with totally different personalities , coaching styles - 3) players a disfunctional squad with a mismatch of players those motivated mainly the new players brought in by the new manager or players that buy in or suit his playing tactics , then a far too high % who are not favoured by the new manager or suit his playing style
 
The one thing the City game showed to me is that this gang of flappers can absolutely turn up and play at a decent intensity when they want to but they are clearly choosing not to. The City game was the first time in about 3 months that I've seen us press like we used to. Silva can set us up, but its up to the players to perform which I don't think any of them are. I've gone 60% the players fault.
 
Parker NSNO said:
The one thing the City game showed to me is that this gang of flappers can absolutely turn up and play at a decent intensity when they want to but they are clearly choosing not to. The City game was the first time in about 3 months that I've seen us press like we used to. Silva can set us up, but its up to the players to perform which I don't think any of them are. I've gone 60% the players fault.
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I agree, but I knew as soon as that game ended and a few of our fans were thinking they'd turned a corner potentially that it wasn't going to be the case. They turn up when they want to and unless they are under the spot light, like with the City game they lose focus.

The City game was a big game in this country due to the impact it would have on the title race and therefore they knew they had to have their head on the game. Fast forward to the Watford game where it's 8th vs 9th where no one else in the country is bothered outside of the 2 teams playing and they just allow their focus to drop.
 
To keep on with the theme of the thread, this group of players are the most shameful to represent us in the last 20+ years. There are a few who have at least kept the effort up, even if not quite good enough, but the vast majority of them are mentally fragile, lack desire, have no instinct to succeed and are happy to put in the bare minimum and pick up their wages.
 
EFC78 said:
To keep on with the theme of the thread, this group of players are the most shameful to represent us in the last 20+ years. There are a few who have at least kept the effort up, even if not quite good enough, but the vast majority of them are mentally fragile, lack desire, have no instinct to succeed and are happy to put in the bare minimum and pick up their wages.
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I agree but its not just at Everton , look at the reaction when the manager dares to blame the players or takes action by punishing them even the top 6 have the same problem , the manager is castigated in the press as making excuses for his own failings , the players revolt and he is even in a worse off situation ?

IMO that's one of the main reasons why Ferguson seen the writing on the wall and the left United suddenly in 2013 after leading them to two another two P/L titles
 
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