Benefit Steet

[Tramps_mate]

Are you being deliberately obtuse. I already said British people who don't work and don't want to work. Or who spit kids out are as bad. You are seemingly not wanting to notice I have said these things.

 

[Basil Fawlty]

I would genuinely like to know what the scale of this is. Assuming such situations exist, do they contribute excessively to the welfare bill to the extent that many politicians and "newspapers" suggest? Are they a very small minority in reality that are outweighed by the good that the system does?

I know many feel there should be a zero tolerance approach but such things are not always practical. People still run on to football pitches at times. It does not mean that the fences have to go back up.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/apr/06/welfare-britain-facts-myths

 

[Tubey]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/apr/06/welfare-britain-facts-myths

Do any families get more than £100,000 a year in benefits, as George Osborne has claimed?

A freedom of information request by Full Fact showed that in August 2010, there were fewer than five housing benefit claimants receiving the equivalent of £100,000 a year.


====================


Says it all that doesn't it?

Politics at its very lowest.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

You're talking about immigrants coming over to Britain, taking advantage of rules to partake in so called "Benefits Tourism".

Great. I get that. I haven't point blank refused to notice that.

In response, I'm telling you the problem is minute and those very same rules allow the EEA citizens who come here to positively effect our economy far more than those "benefits tourists" take out.

So, in summary, if you crack down on benefits tourism, you also close the rules and the welcoming environment that allow the very good aspects of immigration to occur.

You are talking about a "problem" that is so much smaller an issue than you think it is that it'd be actually quite funny if it wasn't a view that was so harmful to society overall, and unfortunately so prevalent.

Not if you merely refuse to allow non UK nationals the right to claim benefits you don't.

I've got no issue with economic migrants, in fact quite the reverse, good on them if they want a better quality of life and are prepared to come over here and try and forge one for themselves - just not at my expense thanks.

If we went over to Eastern Europe we'd get jack [Poor language removed] in the form of State support, so why should we be any different over here?

 

[Tubey]

Not if you merely refuse to allow non UK nationals the right to claim benefits you don't.

I've got no issue with economic migrants, in fact quite the reverse, good on them if they want a better quality of life and are prepared to come over here and try and forge one for themselves - just not at my expense thanks.

If we went over to Eastern Europe we'd get jack [Poor language removed] in the form of State support, so why should we be any different over here?

Fair argument, but my view is that if you go overboard then you create a climate of fear and turn away the overall rather than just the negative.

There are already systems in place that by and large do stop the negative - such as the Habitual Residency Test - which could be marginally tightened up (for example, that girl from the article DID have a partner who lived and worked long term here initially), but if you just lock off an entire aspect of British citizenship to all immigrants than you're treating them as aliens rather than a valid part of society.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Fair argument, but my view is that if you go overboard then you create a climate of fear and turn away the overall rather than just the negative.

There are already systems in place that by and large do stop the negative - such as the Habitual Residency Test - which could be marginally tightened up (for example, that girl from the article DID have a partner who lived and worked long term here initially), but if you just lock off an entire aspect of British citizenship to all immigrants than you're treating them as aliens rather than a valid part of society.

Give them whay they'd get in their own country then, that sounds fair doesn't it?

If they find employment after a short qualifying period they could then gain access to tax credits etc and be classed the same as a National.

Just remove the opportunity to rock up and get free housing, full benefits etc etc. It should never be treated as a 'right' imo.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Not if you merely refuse to allow non UK nationals the right to claim benefits you don't.

I've got no issue with economic migrants, in fact quite the reverse, good on them if they want a better quality of life and are prepared to come over here and try and forge one for themselves - just not at my expense thanks.

If we went over to Eastern Europe we'd get jack [Poor language removed] in the form of State support, so why should we be any different over here?

I don't think that's strictly speaking true. My impression was that if you had paid national insurance in Britain, then those contributions are just as valid in another EU country for things like healthcare. That doesn't make that right of course, but that is my understanding.

 

[Tree13]

I don't think that's strictly speaking true. My impression was that if you had paid national insurance in Britain, then those contributions are just as valid in another EU country for things like healthcare. That doesn't make that right of course, but that is my understanding.

That's how it's SUPPOSED to be. Go give it a try though, and see how far you get.

 

[tonyhorne]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/apr/06/welfare-britain-facts-myths

Thanks. Here's a very interesting extract

The Joseph Rowntree Foundation published a study in December testing whether there were three generations of the same family that had never worked. Despite dogged searching, researchers were unable to find such families. If they exist, they account for a minuscule fraction of workless people.

I think we have to realise that TV companies, like many folk calling themselves journalists, exaggerate and distort the truth to make the programme more noticeable.

 

[Tubey]

Thanks. Here's a very interesting extract

The Joseph Rowntree Foundation published a study in December testing whether there were three generations of the same family that had never worked. Despite dogged searching, researchers were unable to find such families. If they exist, they account for a minuscule fraction of workless people.

I think we have to realise that TV companies, like many folk calling themselves journalists, exaggerate and distort the truth to make the programme more noticeable.

It's what they exist for. Same as papers. If the truth is boring, they don't run with it, as it's not in their interest to do so.

This Harry Potter quote (bizarre source but still!) sums it up perfectly:

“You mean the Prophet won’t print it because Fudge won’t let them,” said Hermione irritably.
Rita gave Hermione a long, hard look. Then, leaning forward across the table toward her, she said in a businesslike tone, “All right, Fudge is leaning on the Prophet, but it comes to the same thing. They won’t print a story that shows Harry in a good light. Nobody wants to read it. It’s against the public mood. This last Azkaban breakout has got people quite worried enough. People just don’t want to believe You-Know-Who’s back.”
“So the Daily Prophet exists to tell people what they want to hear, does it?” said Hermione scathingly.
Rita sat up straight again, her eyebrows raised, and drained her glass of firewhisky.
“The Prophet exists to sell itself, you silly girl,” she said coldly.

 

[Tramps_mate]

This song intro says it all about media for me.. (you may or may not like the song, most wont)

 

[DualityNSNO]

That's how it's SUPPOSED to be. Go give it a try though, and see how far you get.

You'd get pretty far in Bulgaria tbf.

Our NHS works differently to the UK, as insurance just gets you a "discount" for the services used, and getting an EU insurance card costs just about nothing and is done in a day at the most. You won't get it the same as in the UK (free), but you would get a good few pounds/lev/euro/whatever off your "hospital bill". Pretty sure it's similar in other countries, but that's down to them.

 

[evilwebby]

Immigrants should only be allowed if they are skilled workers, If they want benefits they should pay into the pot like everyone else. Any immigrants coming here shouldn't be allowed benefits for 3-5yrs. That's my opinion. I've been paying tax most of my adult life and I've been told tough, not on.

"Only allow in skilled labour."
I hate it whenever people trot out this line. How do you define what is "skilled"? Is a bus driver skilled? Is an secretary skilled?

And the logic that only skilled labour is of benefit is the sort of close-minded thinking that betrays a trust in freedom. Every single economy can benefit from cheaper labour. If people are willing to provide goods and services for £5/hr that you or I can buy, then why should they be stopped from doing so?

History has shown that great economies such as the US and Hong Kong were BUILT on mass immigration of unskilled labour.

Yes I agree that Immigrants shouldn't be allowed benefits... because there shouldn't be such a thing as publically run social benefits system.

 

[Blue Cheese]

"Only allow in skilled labour."
I hate it whenever people trot out this line. How do you define what is "skilled"? Is a bus driver skilled? Is an secretary skilled?

And the logic that only skilled labour is of benefit is the sort of close-minded thinking that betrays a trust in freedom. Every single economy can benefit from cheaper labour. If people are willing to provide goods and services for £5/hr that you or I can buy, then why should they be stopped from doing so?

History has shown that great economies such as the US and Hong Kong were BUILT on mass immigration of unskilled labour.

Yes I agree that Immigrants shouldn't be allowed benefits... because there shouldn't be such a thing as publically run social benefits system.

pipe down lad, finished this ages ago.

 

[degsy]

The Yes Prime Minister description of the various newspapers still pretty much spot on. Some clever sod could/should do a modern version