BigDuncTributeBand
Player Valuation: £25m
Unfortunately I don’t think you’ll find a single referee who would agree or would have made a different decision.
Marius57
Player Valuation: £70m
Tolu did know. He was complaining to the ref about it immediately
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What rule? Where in the laws does it cover this incident?
I've not seen anyone quote any rule other than we know he was sent off under violent conduct which is laughable.
I'm sorry but I am truly baffled how anyone can think a complete accident where there was a brief pull of hair with next to no force, is a certain red card.
Marius57
Player Valuation: £70m
Violent conduct law and guidance specifically says
- make a clear action to pull the hair of an opponent or any other person with force.
You can argue the force aspect but his head moves back in the direction it’s being pulled which suggests there is some force (enough, I don’t know). And Tolu immediately shouts at the ref about it.
If you rewatch it, he grabs it as soon as they come into contact as they start the upwards movement. It’s not on the down (as some have claimed). That’s what will have convinced them it’s intentional (even though I don’t think it’s intent to hurt him).
But it’s literally and specifically in the rules for hair pulling.
Next to no force involved
And don't see how it's a clear action. I dont even think Keane knew it had happened. A clear action surely has to be intentional, and this definitely wasn't
I agree 99.9%, the only suspicion I have in Grealish's case is the 1st yellow card. Was he spoken to by the ref, did the ref try to calm him down by explaining his decision, did the ref warn him and then issue the yellow. For me dissent is a two way thing. Emotions can boil over on the field of play and the ref should be generally understanding of this. Watch how Rugby refs deal with dissent, there is never a straight to the pocket situation. They are humble enough to say 'If I got it wrong, I apologise'. The ref understands the emotions and the players understand and respect the refs job.
Of course, if the ref did take him aside (it must not have been a long conversation if he did) then fair enough, but watching football these days I doubt any ref has that kind of game management skill.
The rule that he was sent off for was violent conduct. You honestly think that is violent conduct. An inch to the right and left he was grabbing shirt, is that violent conduct. My point being is that Keane was not looking at the players hair and purposefully grabbing it. The ref was lacking common sense and a backbone. VAR sends him over, the player may as well walk off the pitch before the ref has even watched it.
Osman described it perfectly. Hair pulling has to be malicious, it has to be purposeful. That was never in a million years, purposeful or malicious. It was a guy jumping and putting his hand on somebodies back who happened to have long hair that he instinctively held on to as they were both coming back down to the ground.
The game has seriously gone if anybody thinks that is violent conduct.
BigDuncTributeBand
Player Valuation: £25m
If it was accidental it wouldn’t be a red card. Personally don’t think that many objective viewers would come to that conclusion.
Was having a read on the referees forum on Facebook today - one of the easiest decisions you’ll ever make was the unanimous consensus. Mike Dean also mentioned a stick on red on Sky Sports last night.
Gilbert..
Player Valuation: £60m
Whats really scary is Keanes was pulled up by VAR as violent conduct but Hwangs studs down the back of Armstrongs leg wasnt. He's raked his studs down the back of his calf nowhere near the ball.
Are you seriously suggesting the first one was deemed more a violent act than the second.
Like i said. Scary how they see things.
Are you seriously suggesting the first one was deemed more a violent act than the second.
Like i said. Scary how they see things.
BigDuncTributeBand
Player Valuation: £25m
I agree it’s ridiculous that it’s considered a red card but based on the interpretation of the violent conduct rule refs are trained on, that’s a red card. Advocate for changing the rule. Ossie, like the majority of these diddy ex pros don’t know the rules and wouldn’t pass a referee exam but are quite happy to go on national telly and criticise people who know the rules 100 times better than them and now they’re to be interpreted.
I can’t really be arsed replying to everyone about this. Froth away if you like
Marius57
Player Valuation: £70m
But you give a decision to make. I don’t know how you can not know you have hold of someone’s hair to be honest. But that’s just my view.
As I said, you can argue the force aspect, but that’s a subjective part, and his head moves back with it so they can argue there was enough to alter his head movement even if we don’t think there was enough.
Do I think it’s soft, yes. Do I think there needs to be scope for referees own judgement and common sense, yes. But it’s in the rules and there is enough broadness in the rules to cover the incident that they can reason it enough to stand by it.
Well first, this is the ref thread, a place to blow off steam about refs. Secondly there's no way the Keane one is a straight red 95% of the time
For it to be violent conduct (which is the reason given here) there needs to be excessive force or brutality shown.
Do you honestly think that Keane briefly holding the guys ponytail showed "excessive force or brutality"?
Why though? And if that is true why did Gallagher dismiss it out of hand.
Then the way they're being told to apply the rules is wrong, because I just don't agree that that action constitutes violent conduct. Again, this isn't me crying conspiracy or corruption or whatever, I'm just saying that if that is seen as a red card offence then things have gone badly wrong somewhere because while you might not find a ref who thinks that's not a red card, you won't find a player who thinks it is one.
Where have you found this?
I've searched and searched for any specific mention of hair pulling and found nothing
