Current Affairs Auschwitz-Birkenau.......

[Barnfred 55]

There was a British brigade in the SS. And we shouldn't forget that closer to home it was only the British Communist Party, Labour Party and Independent Labour Party mobilising on the streets that smashed the native nazi thug movement, the British Union of Fascists, otherwise there could have been death camps set up here.

No Tory or businessmen were going to stand in their way.

You are an utter disgrace.

Imagine trying to make political gain out of such an absolute tragedy. You are completely devoid of morality.

 

[Barnfred 55]

Well, the terminolgy I used might be poor, and the numbers debateable, but the principle stands: Britons were involved with a death machine like the SS and they had many symapthisers amongst the BUF...who were only stopped in their tracks by the might of the organised street level left.

450,000 British people lost their lives fighting the Nazis in WW2 and countless more had their lives ruined by injury, mental illness and grief. But you remember the few who supported the Nazis.

 

[PhilM]

There was a British brigade in the SS. And we shouldn't forget that closer to home it was only the British Communist Party, Labour Party and Independent Labour Party mobilising on the streets that smashed the native nazi thug movement, the British Union of Fascists, otherwise there could have been death camps set up here.

No Tory or businessmen were going to stand in their way.

What about acknowledging the million plus men and women of the armed forces, and those of our allies, that actually stopped the prospect of them being here?

Have a search for the Sonderfahndungsliste (G.B). Also, you may say it is semantics, but from experience a brigade is a few thousand men and not a handful.

I'm normally quite tolerant of your fishing, in fact I'm quite fond of it, but this really isn't a topic for it because there is already a process of warping history.

Basically, focus on the country and their allies, with their millions of fascists, who actually did conquer, enslave, torture and murder millions because of their views.

 

[Brennan]

So, it was the Tories’ fault then...

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

So, it was the Tories’ fault then...

Not exactly, however, how a Nazi Germany was allowed to be funded, I know what ideology allows that to happen and it ain't in the left.

 

[PhilM]

Not exactly, however, how a Nazi Germany was allowed to be funded, I know what ideology allows that to happen and it ain't in the left.

That’s an oversimplification of what was an absolute barmy period of time, particularly in Germany.

 

[davek]

You are an utter disgrace.

Imagine trying to make political gain out of such an absolute tragedy. You are completely devoid of morality.

450,000 British people lost their lives fighting the Nazis in WW2 and countless more had their lives ruined by injury, mental illness and grief. But you remember the few who supported the Nazis.

Pipe down you divvy.

 

[davek]

What about acknowledging the million plus men and women of the armed forces, and those of our allies, that actually stopped the prospect of them being here?

Have a search for the Sonderfahndungsliste (G.B). Also, you may say it is semantics, but from experience a brigade is a few thousand men and not a handful.

I'm normally quite tolerant of your fishing, in fact I'm quite fond of it, but this really isn't a topic for it because there is already a process of warping history.

Basically, focus on the country and their allies, with their millions of fascists, who actually did conquer, enslave, torture and murder millions because of their views.

My point is that if there wasn't appeasement there'd have been no need to sacrifcie those men and women (and the children who died from civil air attacks); there'd have been no death camps; there'd have been no second world war.

The crime of that century was carried out on top of the building blocks of ignoring an existential threat to democracy.

As the Martin Niemöller quote goes...

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

 

[PhilM]

My point is that if there wasn't appeasement there'd have been no need to sacrifcie those men and women (and the children who died from civil air attacks); there'd have been no death camps; there'd have been no second world war.

The crime of that century was carried out on top of the building blocks of ignoring an existential threat to democracy.

As the Martin Niemöller quote goes...

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

With hindsight I agree that it’s easy to say appeasement was a terribly ineffective and short-sighted decision by Britain, France and other nations.

Yet, hindsight is hindsight and it quite naively ignores so much of the history, feelings and sentiment that had emerged from two decades earlier.

This was a generation that had rushes to war in 1914, with great energy and pomp, to only come back with millions injured, butchered and dammed.

This was a generation of leaders that had seen (and often served in) the horrendous slaughter of the 14-18 war, with many of their comrades lost.

This was a generation who was quite literally mentally and physically scared by quickly comforting a rising power through direct military action.

Forgive me for saying, however I feel that many of us have no concept of how much they must have desired a peaceful compromise, knowing all that.

Appeasement didn’t work and we now know the dreadful consequences of this, but at the time I suspect their actions weren’t out of cowardice.

A crime? No, it’s a crime for people to look back with their own bigotry and short-sightedness and criticise people for wanting a peaceful solution.

If you want to slog people from the time, slog those who didn’t push the Saar Offensive because that could and should have endee it.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

That’s an oversimplification of what was an absolute barmy period of time, particularly in Germany.

However, it's true all the same, Federal reserve and Bank of England and various machinations of the rich and powerful from their subsequent countries have also an awful lot of blood on their hands, which is far too often overlooked.

Some virtue signalling of the highest order in general maybe unwittingly.
It's all to easy to express sadness after events, how about dealing with cause rather than seeing amoral opportunity in fist instance.

 

[davek]

With hindsight I agree that it’s easy to say appeasement was a terribly ineffective and short-sighted decision by Britain, France and other nations.

Yet, hindsight is hindsight and it quite naively ignores so much of the history, feelings and sentiment that had emerged from two decades earlier.

This was a generation that had rushes to war in 1914, with great energy and pomp, to only come back with millions injured, butchered and dammed.

This was a generation of leaders that had seen (and often served in) the horrendous slaughter of the 14-18 war, with many of their comrades lost.

This was a generation who was quite literally mentally and physically scared by quickly comforting a rising power through direct military action.

Forgive me for saying, however I feel that many of us have no concept of how much they must have desired a peaceful compromise, knowing all that.

Appeasement didn’t work and we now know the dreadful consequences of this, but at the time I suspect their actions weren’t out of cowardice.

A crime? No, it’s a crime for people to look back with their own bigotry and short-sightedness and criticise people for wanting a peaceful solution.

If you want to slog people from the time, slog those who didn’t push the Saar Offensive because that could and should have endee it.

Yes, but you have to also address the fact that there were many in the British Establishment who saw Hitler as someone who could do their dirty work for them in the sense that he had shown a strong hand against the organised working class movements in Germany and presented a threat to Soviet Russia. They were also petrified of a strong working class and the ideolgy of communism becoming embedded in Britain. And it wasn't only on that level, Hitler had his admirers in the British ruling elite. His racial policies were in synch with their own views on social order (many of them were influenced by scientific racism and eugenics).

THAT was a telling factor in appeasement too.

 

[Barnfred 55]

Pipe down you divvy.

No I won't pipe down Dave. When you behave like this you deserve calling out.

This thread was set up so we could discuss and remember the holocaust, with the International Holocaust Remembrance day taking place on Monday. As we all know, the holocaust is the worst case of genocide in the history of mankind and there are possibly hundreds of thousands still alive today who were affected by it. The majority of people who have posted here have respected that, but from the outset you have tried to derail the thread with a number of controversial highly politicised posts.

We all know your views on the state of Israel Dave. God knows we have to hear them often enough in here. But if you can't bring yourself to make any posts showing sympathy or empathy for the six million Jews murdered during the holocaust, then just stay out of the thread. Derailing it like you did just shows an utter lack of respect for those that died, and that's why I'm so pissed off by your posts.

Whether I'm a divvy or not is not for me to say. But I'd rather be a divvy than a sad, bitter, vindictive person like you.

 

[tsubaki]

You are an utter disgrace.

Imagine trying to make political gain out of such an absolute tragedy. You are completely devoid of morality.

Spare us the bleating, please. Few parties have ever been as disastrously wrong as the Tories were between 1935 and 1940 and even fewer managed to survive afterwards.

Let’s not forget this was a party that looked at Chamberlain after Munich, after Poland, after Royal Oak, after Norway and after three days of the most savage kicking a House of Commons will ever hand out to a PM and voted by a majority of 80 that they had confidence in him. If a small number of Tories hadn’t gone against their party and worked with “socialists” - and many of them were made to pay for it - the world would be a very different place.

 

[Barnfred 55]

Spare us the bleating, please. Few parties have ever been as disastrously wrong as the Tories were between 1935 and 1940 and even fewer managed to survive afterwards.

Let’s not forget this was a party that looked at Chamberlain after Munich, after Poland, after Royal Oak, after Norway and after three days of the most savage kicking a House of Commons will ever hand out to a PM and voted by a majority of 80 that they had confidence in him. If a small number of Tories hadn’t gone against their party and worked with “socialists” - and many of them were made to pay for it - the world would be a very different place.

No bleating from my side.

This is a memorial thread for the holocaust that Dave was trying to gain political points from. As are you now.

Threads like this and the Lyra McKee one are for people to show empathy and respect. If you aren't able or don't want to do either, just stay out of it.

 

[davek]

No bleating from my side.

This is a memorial thread for the holocaust that Dave was trying to gain political points from. As are you now.

Threads like this and the Lyra McKee one are for people to show empathy and respect. If you aren't able or don't want to do either, just stay out of it.

Threads like these are to also mull over the causes of the holocaust, and it does the memories of those people no service at all t fail to keep on analysing it and keep on calling out the historical mistakes made by ruling elites across Europe that allowed it to happen.

Stop being so prissy.