Current Affairs Assault on US Capitol and Related (non-Trump) Investigation

[Prevenger17]

But we’ve had, oh it’s Ok to break into Trump Towers or torch a shop

No we haven't Pete. Hundreds of people have been arrested over the riots and looting that happened during the BLM protests. Would you let them go in the spirit of healing?

Trump has broken the law, so he will probably be put in prison. He has also committed a highly impeachable offence, so is being impeached. It's not hard to understand

 

[Huyton Layne]

Just so people don't get their hopes up, Trump and all these politicians aren't getting in any sort of trouble for this.
It'd be great if there were repercussions for such BS but it'll just be the peons getting prosecuted

 

[peteblue]

No we haven't Pete. Hundreds of people have been arrested over the riots and looting that happened during the BLM protests. Would you let them go in the spirit of healing?

Trump has broken the law, so he will probably be put in prison. He has also committed a highly impeachable offence, so is being impeached. It's not hard to understand

You seem to have already reached a number of verdicts on Trump...I think I’ll wait and see what transpires....

 

[Prevenger17]

You seem to have already reached a number of verdicts on Trump...I think I’ll wait and see what transpires....

Well we all know you love your waiting and seeing. But it really doesn't apply here, he's already been impeached because his offence was deemed impeachable by congress. And by any measurement, it was. Are you getting this?

And would you let all the hundreds of people who were arrested for their part in the riots and looting during the BLM protests free in the spirit of healing, or is it only people who identify as right wing who would benefit from your mercy? That was an actual question

 

[peteblue]

Well we all know you love your waiting and seeing. But it really doesn't apply here, he's already been impeached because his offence was deemed impeachable by congress. And by any measurement, it was. Are you getting this?

And would you let all the hundreds of people who were arrested for their part in the riots and looting during the BLM protests free in the spirit of healing, or is it only people who identify as right wing who would benefit from your mercy? That was an actual question

I’m not sure you understand the process of impeachment. So far he has effectively been indicted, It is the Senate that decides guilt or not and it hasn’t got there yet has it ?

I would prosecute anyone found to be breaking the Law, of any political or terrorist persuasion.....

 

[Prevenger17]

I’m not sure you understand the process of impeachment

By America's definition of impeachment, he has already been impeached as far as I know. The outcome is irrelevant, he will go down in history as the first US president to be impeached twice.

I would prosecute anyone found to be breaking the Law, of any political or terrorist persuasion

And can I assume, by extension, that you would impeach someone for committing an impeachable offence?

 

[LinekersLegs]

If it brings you lot in the USA back together I’m all for it......

Why will not convicting Trump of impeachment heal the nation?

If Trump had resigned, like Nixon, you could argue that there is benefit in no impeachment or the issuing of a pardon. That is not the case here.

Post presidency, irrespective of the result of the Senate trial, what do you think Trump is likely to do?
a) continue his lie that the election was stolen from him
b) admit that Biden won a fair and free election

Nobody, even you, believes option b so you have to assess what will be the best way to reduce the damage of option a.

And a bipartisan (which it has to be in Senate given the numbers) condemnation of his actions has a small chance of persuading some of his voters that Biden is the legitimate president. Otherwise a lack of conviction just adds weight to Trump’s lie which will further damage the nation, especially as he will likely run on that platform for 2024

 

[Prevenger17]

Why will not convicting Trump of impeachment heal the nation?

If Trump had resigned, like Nixon, you could argue that there is benefit in no impeachment or the issuing of a pardon. That is not the case here.

Post presidency, irrespective of the result of the Senate trial, what do you think Trump is likely to do?
a) continue his lie that the election was stolen from him
b) admit that Biden won a fair and free election

Nobody, even you, believes option b so you have to assess what will be the best way to reduce the damage of option a.

And a bipartisan (which it has to be in Senate given the numbers) condemnation of his actions has a small chance of persuading some of his voters that Biden is the legitimate president. Otherwise a lack of conviction just adds weight to Trump’s lie which will further damage the nation, especially as he will likely run on that platform for 2024

Peter's definition of healing is:

• Trump doing what ever the hell he wants while still in office and winding up his rabid base with crap eating lunatic conspiracies
• Biden letting him do so without any consequences

A fair compromise, I think we can all agree, let the healing begin

 

[LostLegend]

Why will not convicting Trump of impeachment heal the nation?

If Trump had resigned, like Nixon, you could argue that there is benefit in no impeachment or the issuing of a pardon. That is not the case here.

Post presidency, irrespective of the result of the Senate trial, what do you think Trump is likely to do?
a) continue his lie that the election was stolen from him
b) admit that Biden won a fair and free election

Nobody, even you, believes option b so you have to assess what will be the best way to reduce the damage of option a.

And a bipartisan (which it has to be in Senate given the numbers) condemnation of his actions has a small chance of persuading some of his voters that Biden is the legitimate president. Otherwise a lack of conviction just adds weight to Trump’s lie which will further damage the nation, especially as he will likely run on that platform for 2024

This is it really.

Calls for healing is a one sided shout.

No way in hell Trump wants 'healing' - his very brand at the moment is based around playing the division within the US to his tune.
If there's even a sniff of a chance that he can run again in 2024, this whole nonsense of "stolen election" and rousing up his cult against everyone who apposes him will continue.

 

[TN Toffee]

I’m not sure you understand the process of impeachment. So far he has effectively been indicted, It is the Senate that decides guilt or not and it hasn’t got there yet has it ?

I would prosecute anyone found to be breaking the Law, of any political or terrorist persuasion.....

I think it’s actually you who is confused. In American Constitutional terms, impeachment = indictment. It’s now up to the Senate to conduct his trial, and if they convict him of the crimes he’s been impeached for he will be removed from office and almost certainly barred from holding public office again.

Obviously the removal from office will be moot, as his term will have ended, so this whole exercise is really about barring him from running in the future and setting the precedent that sedition won’t EVER be tolerated, regardless of how long you have left in office.

 

[roydo]

I think it’s actually you who is confused. In American Constitutional terms, impeachment = indictment. It’s now up to the Senate to conduct his trial, and if they convict him of the crimes he’s been impeached for he will be removed from office and almost certainly barred from holding public office again.

Obviously the removal from office will be moot, as his term will have ended, so this whole exercise is really about barring him from running in the future and setting the precedent that sedition won’t EVER be tolerated, regardless of how long you have left in office.

I can only apologise from this side of the pond for my fellow Brits who havnt a clue about your political system, but continue to tell you what to do.

I find the whole thing baffling. But very interesting.

 

[SteveSC]

I think it’s actually you who is confused. In American Constitutional terms, impeachment = indictment. It’s now up to the Senate to conduct his trial, and if they convict him of the crimes he’s been impeached for he will be removed from office and almost certainly barred from holding public office again.

Obviously the removal from office will be moot, as his term will have ended, so this whole exercise is really about barring him from running in the future and setting the precedent that sedition won’t EVER be tolerated, regardless of how long you have left in office.

Pete confused and out of his depth. Never. Haha!

 

[LinekersLegs]

I can only apologise from this side of the pond for my fellow Brits who havnt a clue about your political system, but continue to tell you what to do.

I find the whole thing baffling. But very interesting.

For those curious about the origins of the impeachment clause found this an interesting read. Particularly that the framers realized fhat given the power given to the President meant there there were actions that were not chargable as a crime that still warranted removal to protect the nation.

Impeachment as National Security: The Framers’ Intentions

One of the most significant yet underappreciated lessons of the history of impeachment is that it was intended as a tool to strengthen the nation’s security.

www.lawfareblog.com

The framers settled on “Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.” The first two were clear enough from a definitional perspective, but the Constitution’s framers found them not sufficiently broad to serve as a sufficient safeguard. For them, criminality was neither necessary nor sufficient, even if it made the case clearer and more comfortable. The Constitutional debates reveal that the addition of “high Crimes and Misdemeanors” was key as it signified the framers’ belief that an impeachable offense need not be a crime at all. Borrowing this phrase from previous British legal practice, the Constitution’s authors reasoned that there were “many great and dangerous offenses” that would not necessarily meet the precise definitions of either treason or bribery but that nevertheless would constitute an egregious abuse of power, an imperiling of national security or a betrayal of national trust.

 

[peteblue]

By America's definition of impeachment, he has already been impeached as far as I know. The outcome is irrelevant, he will go down in history as the first US president to be impeached twice.




And can I assume, by extension, that you would impeach someone for committing an impeachable offence?

I’m losing the will to live now......

 

[peteblue]

Pete confused and out of his depth. Never. Haha!

Don’t be silly, there are those that understand, those that pretend not to understand, those that don’t wish to understand, those that sometimes understand and then there’s you...