Current Affairs Anti-fascists (antifa), and a nationwide resistance of hate.

[Tubey]

Dunno about them being as bad as the far right, think that's a bit of a stretch and a bit of a lazy centrist comparison tbh. They may not go about things the right way but their cause is certainly less shady than Nazi's and White supermacists.

Plus you're going to have a hard time convincing me to hate on someone for punching Nazis.

It's like chopping a head off a hydra though.

Sure, you punch one Nazi, but by doing so you legitimise them and two others pop up to fight.

It's reactionary stupidity.

 

[longers]

It's like chopping a head off a hydra though.

Sure, you punch one Nazi, but by doing so you legitimise them and two others pop up to fight.

Not entirely true. Last years unite the right rally in Charlottesville drew hundreds of open neo nazis. This years unite the right rally drew 21 people with many admitting they didn't attend because they didn't feel safe due to Antifa. This is one example of Antifas militant tactics actually working.

Hardly anyone turned up and thus their rally/message got no coverage in the media.

 

[longers]

 

[dholliday]

They aren't, though.

The rise of Trump (and the attitudes behind Brexit here) is down to the media and political parties repeating over a period of some years the same demands for the things that far right groups traditionally agitate for. How long has the Mail and that other rag been going on about immigrants or about the feral underclass class? How often have they lauded political leaders as strong or powerful for taking military action as opposed to discussion? How many times have they praised business leaders for making money (irrespective of how sustainable that is) whilst attacking (for instance) unions for trying to prevent things that cost us all a lot of money further down the line? How many lies did they peddle - or at best allowed to go unchallenged - from the politicians they favoured, even when those lies were easily disprovable at the time and had an impact that cost people their lives? The idea of a strong decisive leader that speaks his mind, does what "the people" want and gets things done is one that we have been told to like for years.

I agree that Antifa or some like group is a daft idea - not least for the reason that the extreme right loves uniforms, weapons and martyrs so will probably be able to out-organize any left group - but to blame the Left for the rise of Trump is just daft; lets face it the Left has been a nonentity in the US for years and was largely an irrelevance here as well from 1983-2015.

The leftist media shutting down debate of the mass migrant waves of 2015/16 (you're a Nazi if expressing any kind of misgivings) pushed the Brexit vote in that direction more than decades of Daily Mail hate.

The same-leaning media & commentariat were damning Trump daily (and still are) which as we've seen has proven to be counter-productive.

Separatism has never been the answer.

Plus you're going to have a hard time convincing me to hate on someone for punching Nazis.

This is wrong for one simple reason: who defines a Nazi? What is a Nazi? Can you define one and be so sure that you advocate illegal violent assault? You're part of the problem and thus as bad as any actual violence-supporting Hitler-loving Hakenkreuz-wearing Nazi.

 

[LEONARD]

I hate fascism, and the alt-right, but these crusty middle-class yobs, don't speak for me.

 

[longers]

This is wrong for one simple reason: who defines a Nazi? What is a Nazi? Can you define one and be so sure that you advocate illegal violent assault? You're part of the problem and thus as bad as any actual violence-supporting Hitler-loving Hakenkreuz-wearing Nazi.

Nobody goes round punching random strangers in the street hoping they are Nazi's... they literally go to white supermacist rallies and cause a fuss, they aren't just wandering down your local high street taking random guesses as to who is a facist and then sparking them out.

Watch this, it's not exactly hard to spot them...

 

[ilikecheese]

The leftist media shutting down debate of the mass migrant waves of 2015/16 (you're a Nazi if expressing any kind of misgivings) pushed the Brexit vote in that direction more than decades of Daily Mail hate.

Separatism has never been the answer.

I guess separatism is only ok with regards to immigrants.

 

[dholliday]

Nobody goes round punching strangers in the street hoping they are Nazi's... they literally go to white supermacist rallies and cause a fuss, they aren't just wandering down your local high street taking random guesses as to who is a facist.

That's not what the it's ok to punch a Nazi meme is about. It's a tribal call to disruptive violence that will inevitably escalate into disturbing very much non-Nazi rallies & speeches, as we've seen countless times - see our Far Left thread here for many examples of such disruption.

It's not ok to pre-emptively punch anyone just for holding different political views (however repellent those views may be). Advocating such violence is actual fascism - i.e. maintaining social control through violence & intimidation - which is what you're supporting.

Imagine someone with your views except on the other side of the political spectrum: advocating violence against liberal uni professors because you don't like what they stand for (however regressive their views may be). You'd first get banned from this forum sharpish, then you'd likely get arrested if you carried on publicly supporting such views.

 

[Blue 1]

Antifa exists for literally the sole reason of stomping people who espouse genocide.

To draw some kind of moral equivalence between them and Nazis is rubbish.

 

[dholliday]

I guess separatism is only ok with regards to immigrants.

your comment makes no sense. What are you trying to say?

 

[nsno-chris]

Dunno about them being as bad as the far right, think that's a bit of a stretch and a bit of a lazy centrist comparison tbh. They may not go about things the right way but their cause is certainly less shady than Nazi's and White supermacists.

Plus you're going to have a hard time convincing me to hate on someone for punching Nazis.

Is violence ever the right answer though? Would I punch a Islamic extremist or a black panther because of what they’re saying?? No,

It’s their view and you’d hope the authorities would handle it if it ever became a public concern. Yes it’s a disgusting view point, but living in a democratic society gives people the right to free speech

 

[DanEFC92]

Quite ironic that they’ll also call out the capitalist culture as being wrong yet go home and play on their consoles whilst drinking a £10 flat white Frappuccino with soy milk

 

[dholliday]

Antifa exists for literally the sole reason of stomping people who espouse genocide.

Sadly not true, Blue. The likes of Ben Shapiro, the Weinstein brothers, Sargon of Akkad, Lionel Shriver, Heather Heying, Christina Hoff Sommers and many more are clearly not supporters of genocide, yet have had their talks disrupted by Antifa because their views aren't in full sync with contemporary 'progressive' liberalism.

 

[Blue 1]

Sadly not true, Blue. The likes of Ben Shapiro, the Weinstein brothers, Sargon of Akkad, Lionel Shriver, Heather Heying, Christina Hoff Sommers and many more are clearly not supporters of genocide, yet have had their talks disrupted by Antifa because their views aren't in full sync with contemporary 'progressive' liberalism.

Ben Shapiro supports the genocide of Palestinians.

Not entirely familiar with any of the others.

 

[dholliday]

Ben Shapiro supports the genocide of Palestinians.

That's quite a statement! You got evidence of this? Personally I support the Palestinians and have been disgusted at the inhumane methods of Israeli 'defence'. Abby Martin does good work uncovering how the Israeli culture sees such things.

Shapiro's views on Muslims are clearly prejudiced and far too simplified for someone who normally used solid detail in his arguments. He's got a blind spot there (as a Jew himself, likely). I've seen him support the official Israeli policy of 'self-defence', tho' that's too much of a stretch if you mean he supports their genocide and thus deserves a punch in the face. Unless you mean something else he said?