(Another) Teachers strike

[Bruce Wayne]

Thank god we've found a spokesman for the teachers who can so accurately and succinctly explain what they're ALL complaining about. Did you glean this information from them ALL whilst you were assessing how god awful they all are?

Not sure where you got me saying they were all awful in the comment you quoted, but the general gist of their dispute is that the government are changing the terms of their pension at their behest.

They can just as easily change how much tax they want, and we can do nothing about that either. What is the difference?

 

[chicoazul]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2200557/Bernard-Arnault-Frances-richest-man-applies-Belgian-escape-75-cent-tax-rate.html

The Froggies don't seem to keen on the socialist jealousy tax mate.

Good on them, that's sh*thouse behaviour typical of the privileged mate.

He could have just got the boat to Jersey ffs.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I'm not buying into the system mate. I'm more socialist and prefer bigger government.

I agree with you in both our main political parties not being a feasible solution to the country's problems.

Aye but the socialist system is even more that way inclined. It is basically saying that the government are better equipped and informed to spend your money than you are. If you agree with that basic principle then you have no right to complain when that government apply that power for a cause you don't agree with.

 

[chicoazul]

Aye but the socialist system is even more that way inclined. It is basically saying that the government are better equipped and informed to spend your money than you are. If you agree with that basic principle then you have no right to complain when that government apply that power for a cause you don't agree with.

How about they're saying that they can look after your interests better than a private company.

It would be hard to disagree with them either as some elements of the USA proves.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I agree with democracy but that doesn't mean I think Adolf Hiyler or margeret thatcher were the right choices in the elections they won.

I can't speak for Hitler but Thatcher was voted for by the majority of voters at the time. That government then has the legal power to force their views on us all, regardless of whether you voted for them or not.

That is the system. It's nothing to do with whether you approve of them or not. Just because you cast a vote gives you no right to dictate anything about my life. As long as I'm law abiding you have no right.

That's a principle you either agree with or not. You might argue that you have the right to protest about any decision the government makes, but lets be real here, that's nonsense. Pensioners protesting about council tax rises have been put in jail. Students protesting about tuition fee rises have been ignored. Pretty much the entire nation protesting about Iraq likewise.

It's a crap system, and the notion that it is in any way free and just is nonsense.

 

[scratchnsurf]

Boo hoo. You think everyone else doesn't take work home with them, or do it whilst on holiday? Cmon, get real.

Every single teacher I know has the most cushtie life imaginable. They have got no idea.

Oh and we need to get rid of this myth that teachers are somehow noble souls who have such a love of learning etc. I can't think of a single one like that. They're all in it because it's a good career and they read a damn site less than I do.

When I enquired into PGCE training the vast majority of the others on the open day were from poor universities who wanted to teach because it was a pretty much guaranteed job with great perks and pensions. Not one of them had a nerdy passion for the subject they wanted to pass on to the kids.

So yeah, sorry and all but I have absolutely no sympathy for teachers as most are god awful.

Not sure where you got me saying they were all awful in the comment you quoted, but the general gist of their dispute is that the government are changing the terms of their pension at their behest.

They can just as easily change how much tax they want, and we can do nothing about that either. What is the difference?

I would suggest the main difference is that they'd find it hard to direct their taxation so that it affected such a specific group of people.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

How about they're saying that they can look after your interests better than a private company.

It would be hard to disagree with them either as some elements of the USA proves.

You seriously trust politicians to do anything right? I mean really?

I'll say this though. The true test of any of this is what course of action you have if you're not happy that an organisation is serving your interests.

If it's a private company you have the choice to shop elsewhere, right there, right then.

If it's a government, you have a choice to vote every 4/5 years in the hope that enough people agree with you as to put one of two hopeless crooks in charge. If they don't then you're stuck with who you have.

Where's the competition here?

 

[scratchnsurf]

I can't speak for Hitler

Oh go on, I bet that'd get some reply with quotes.

 

[chicoazul]

You seriously trust politicians to do anything right? I mean really?

I'll say this though. The true test of any of this is what course of action you have if you're not happy that an organisation is serving your interests.

If it's a private company you have the choice to shop elsewhere, right there, right then.

If it's a government, you have a choice to vote every 4/5 years in the hope that enough people agree with you as to put one of two hopeless crooks in charge. If they don't then you're stuck with who you have.

Where's the competition here?

What happens when the private companies continually put their profits ahead of serving the people? For example the healthcare in the US?

There's some things that need to be nationalised, like healthcare, so the people who are voted in are accountable for it.

 

[scratchnsurf]

You seriously trust politicians to do anything right? I mean really?

What, like renegotiate the terms of your pension? Or even tell the truth about their affordability, let alone even know what the truth is.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

What happens when the private companies continually put their profits ahead of serving the people? For example the healthcare in the US?

There's some things that need to be nationalised, like healthcare, so the people who are voted in are accountable for it.

The US healthcare system is just as hopeless as ours. Don't forget that in America it isn't you and I that buy the healthcare, it's our employer. That's hardly any better than the state doing it for us. If you want real freedom you need to buy it yourself.

As for companies putting profits first, well it's up to you to find a supplier you are happy with. You can see with something as critical as food that you have pricier suppliers doing the whole organic thing, or you have the budget end such as Lidl or the own brand value ranges. If there's competition then you generally get a good range of services on offer.

There are so many examples of politicians being absolute whoppers that it's hard to understand why anyone would want them to have a monopoly over anything. And sadly they're not at all accountable for anything. Cameron et al aren't exactly popular right now, how exactly are they accountable for anything?

Has it ever crossed your mind that someone else just might be able to do things better? That they might be able to offer better terms and conditions to employees? Let me tell you, when the bird comes home crying each evening because of the ****ty experience that is working in the NHS I wish to god there were some other organisations out there that could give it a go, because the NHS do not have a clue.

What, like renegotiate the terms of your pension? Or even tell the truth about their affordability, let alone even know what the truth is.

Well quite. You'd be hard pressed to find a shadier bunch. Fair play on my previous post btw, shouldn't write when the red mist is in the air. I just don't agree with going on strike. Never have. There should be multiple suppliers so you aren't ever put into that position. Monopolies are as bad for employees as they are for customers.

 

[Joao Moutinho]

Being a trainee teacher, this strike is entirely justified

 

[chicoazul]

You're basing your view on the NHS on the unfortunate experiences of your girlfriend working for them mate rather than viewing it as a whole and the purpose it serves in our society. I dont doubt there are some areas that need tightening up but the alternative isn't worth considering.

Lackluster care provided by some companies in the US are prone to conditions preventing the policy holders from receiving necessary healthcare on the whim of their own appointed underwriters.

What about those not in work mate? Should they suffer without or be forced to suffer a lifetime of debt to enable essential care?

Judge a society by how it treats its weakest and much vulnerable. The US shows that your private companies just dont simply give a [Poor language removed] about them.

 

[scratchnsurf]

Striking has to be the ultimate last resort. It's worth pointing out that no strike is planned, no date has been set. Industrial action has been voted for. The unions have a mandate, hopefully to be used as a tool in any negotiating process, should one take place. Industrial action can take other forms, it doesn't have to be a strike.

I suspect that strikes planned by other public sector unions announced today over the issue of pay will do little to help the public's view of teachers as many will incorrectly believe that teachers are also striking about their pay.

 

[Brennan]

What alternative is there though? We've seen earlier in this thread that many people don't like the state education system, and thus send their kids private, you included. Now your folks weren't then offered a refund on the taxes they spent not getting a state education for you. Maybe your folks were well off enough to be able to do that, but I suspect many would like the choice to go elsewhere but can't afford to pay twice.

And nor should they receive a refund. When you pay taxes you aren't just paying to support those directly dependent on you, you're contributing to things which support society as a whole.

For the record, my parents aren't well off. The fees for the school i attended were around £4000 per year, and i only attended from year 7 onwards. The fact that my parents were relatively old when they had me and that i'm a single child probably helped too. It's a sad myth believed by many that private or alternative means of education are only viable if your parents are 'rich', as it were.