Current Affairs Afghanistan

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I probably don't see it as black and white as you, but that message is already out.
Think I’m just angry at the situation mate, not as easy as just taking military action of course. But I think, IMO, if you don’t think Russia and China aren’t sitting up and taking notice of how this is playing out you’re mad, especially with the current president in charge. How he has got it so spectacularly wrong is crazy, you’d think one of his advisors would have said “hold up, this a bad idea.”
 
Think I’m just angry at the situation mate, not as easy as just taking military action of course. But I think, IMO, if you don’t think Russia and China aren’t sitting up and taking notice of how this is playing out you’re mad, especially with the current president in charge. How he has got it so spectacularly wrong is crazy, you’d think one of his advisors would have said “hold up, this a bad idea.”
I want to try and avoid getting dragged into an ideological debate (not with you, we likely agree), but you're obviously correct on Russia/China. What we're seeing today is the predictable outcome of an academia-like approach to real world conflict. Essentially, our "elites" own this, and the non-elites (Afghans, servicemen) are going to pay for their high-minded experimentation.

Admittedly, this isn't new for the US (or the West generally) but it's a different variant. There's just a huge disconnect between the people running America at the moment and the people of America (and those serving on her behalf), and the consequences will fall on the latter.
 
Think I’m just angry at the situation mate, not as easy as just taking military action of course. But I think, IMO, if you don’t think Russia and China aren’t sitting up and taking notice of how this is playing out you’re mad, especially with the current president in charge. How he has got it so spectacularly wrong is crazy, you’d think one of his advisors would have said “hold up, this a bad idea.”

I saw a report the other day where the finger was being pointed at one of the USA generals, regarding the abandonment of a defensible Bagram and moving into a smaller airport in the middle of a city…….
 
Its disgusting that they've let the Taliban take over again. Afghanistan had moved forward massively over the last 20 years. Now its straight back to the 90's..

So so sad for the Afghan people..
To be honest I don’t think it had moved forward at all…. The Taliban were always going to be there in the background just waiting … this was always going to happen once the troops left.
 
I probably don't see it as black and white as you, but that message is already out.

Is it?

This is the very tail end of a twenty-year war that has been - by any measure - a disaster, for the Afghans and for everyone else. Hundreds of thousands of Afghans dead, thousands of Western troops killed, tens of thousands of Western troops maimed, at least two and a bit trillion dollars pissed away, a wave of radicalization leading to terror attacks across the globe and the rise of a group worse than the Taliban... and all it has achieved is to get us right back to square one.

Now we are leaving and repeated tragedy has ensued during this withdrawal, the very last people who should be crowing about how appalling it is are the incompetents that are responsible for all that (or the people who cheer on those incompetents), whose proposed response to this is apparently to either not leave and hope the Taliban don't notice or instead to ramp the war up again for as long as it takes, because obviously the lesson from this latest horror is that we should present more targets over there for a longer period of time.

Of course though there are Tony and his mates, seemingly on all media platforms, condemning Biden for withdrawing (under a deal Trump signed and would have implemented earlier), and pretending its going to be open season on the US / the UK / western civilization as a whole because of how "Taliban Joe" (!) has taken troops out.

It won't, and if we go back to a saner foreign policy (where war is a last resort but when it is declared, it is done properly) led by more competent and less corrupt leaders we will all be far safer than we are now.
 
I want to try and avoid getting dragged into an ideological debate (not with you, we likely agree), but you're obviously correct on Russia/China. What we're seeing today is the predictable outcome of an academia-like approach to real world conflict. Essentially, our "elites" own this, and the non-elites (Afghans, servicemen) are going to pay for their high-minded experimentation.

Admittedly, this isn't new for the US (or the West generally) but it's a different variant. There's just a huge disconnect between the people running America at the moment and the people of America (and those serving on her behalf), and the consequences will fall on the latter.
I want to try and avoid getting dragged into an ideological debate (not with you, we likely agree), but you're obviously correct on Russia/China. What we're seeing today is the predictable outcome of an academia-like approach to real world conflict. Essentially, our "elites" own this, and the non-elites (Afghans, servicemen) are going to pay for their high-minded experimentation.

Admittedly, this isn't new for the US (or the West generally) but it's a different variant. There's just a huge disconnect between the people running America at the moment and the people of America (and those serving on her behalf), and the consequences will fall on the latter.
I think I agree with you, somewhat. I think the main concern is that the USA has a president who’s clearly not mentally cognitive calling the shots, but had an already shocking foreign policy history anyway. As you say, it’s the Afghans, the US forces and likely now the west who will suffer because of this. The events happening right now are just a small insight lnto what will likely happen again on western shores.
 
To be honest I don’t think it had moved forward at all…. The Taliban were always going to be there in the background just waiting … this was always going to happen once the troops left.

Correct, but there was no need to actually remove the few troops that were still in Afghanistan. The ANA were doing all the heavy lifting and suffering any casualties.…
 
I saw a report the other day where the finger was being pointed at one of the USA generals, regarding the abandonment of a defensible Bagram and moving into a smaller airport in the middle of a city…….
Appalling if true mate. Without knowing the ins and outs of what he had available to defend it with I wouldn’t want to comment, but a alternative airfield would sure look good right now.
 
Appalling if true mate. Without knowing the ins and outs of what he had available to defend it with I wouldn’t want to comment, but a alternative airfield would sure look good right now.

Apparently, Biden and co said he could have 700, so found an airfield that fitted that number instead of standing his ground and demanding the troops to defend a secure position….
 
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