A Case for the Defence

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The Esk said:
What about putting Martinez into the role of Director of football and bringing in someone with more tactical awareness as head coach?
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I could never imagine him going for that sort of arrangement though. Management is where the glory is, that's why so many ex players pursue it despite it being one of the most thankless, stressful tasks in football.

The main reason I made this thread was in response to a statement I see being frequently made in the other threads. That Roberto is taking us backwards as a club. It's an easy statement to make if you look at nothing but table position, but I think the changes he has made go a lot deeper than that.

We all agree that we have the best squad in about 30 years, that we play very good football (with an unfortunate lack of steel) and that our team is worth a bomb in today's market. If Martinez does eventually go, the next guy will have some springboard. There's a lot of Martinez' detractors who are retrospectively denying him the credit for this progress because of bad results.
 
squonk said:
that comment is complete and utter agenda-driven bollocks
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He was a terrible football manager. There's no sugar coating it.

A motivator, a number two who exerts discipline? Yes. Never a coach of football....as he's gone on to underline elsewhere in his embarrassing post Everton career.
 
squonk said:
definitive proof if was needed that you obsession is with Martinez and not with everton like the rest of us.

posting a pic of him with a trophy for a different club is embarrassing and cringeworthy
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But certain folk cling to that as a measure of success highlighting that makes him a successful manager. Seem to recall when he arrived there was talk of bringing CL football to Goodison.
 
It cannot be denied that we are missing backbone.
The Lukaku penalty miss shouldn't have brought us crumbling down, but it did.

We are still along way off from the finished article, but come 1st week in August we may have:

A goalkeeper who commands his box.
A one-year-older John Stones
A one-year-older Ross Barkley
A one-year-older Gerard Deulofeu
A one-year-older Romelu Lukaku
Another 'stopper' CB - we are definitely missing a Scott Dann or a Ryan Shawcross. Someone who is going to rival/partner Jags and put his head on everything.
A fit Baines - potentially a replacement if he can't sort that ankle out
A Barry long-term replacement - someone with a bit of vision but also add some bite to the midfield. Potential that's Besic but that remains to be seen.
A proper door-opener. Yarmolenko or someone like that i.e. someone who can breach those withdrawn sides.

How much is that gonna cost us? £60mil? Well within the realms of realism.

And what's more, we have someone who has proven 2 years ago that when he has the right players we CAN achieve really good, consistent results.

Now is not the time to judge him. Had we not been injected with cash, i'd be saying give him 2 more years. Long-term, realistic vision. Now he has cash, and he can spend it, the time-frame is shortened.
 
Eric Djemba-Djemba said:
We've won 1 more away game than at home. We're barely ripping everyone apart and in the cups we've beat a load of dross and gone out the first time we've played anyone good. Like I'm expecting to on Saturday.
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We have one of the best away records in the league and have reached a semi and quarter final (at least).

It doesn't compensate for the dump suffered at Goodison but it does show that wider picture it's not all doom and gloom. Certainly not sufficient to fire the manager now.

I just read an open letter to "Mr Moshiri" on his first day begging him to fire Martinez.

Welcome to Newcastle Farhid.
 
chicoazul said:
We have one of the best away records in the league and have reached a semi and quarter final (at least).

It doesn't compensate for the dump suffered at Goodison but it does show that wider picture it's not all doom and gloom. Certainly not sufficient to fire the manager now.

I just read an open letter to "Mr Moshiri" on his first day begging him to fire Martinez.

Welcome to Newcastle Farhid.
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Christ.
 
Prevenger17 said:
To close, I’d like to pose a question, and I’ll paraphrase the American Republican party a few years ago. Disregarding results and table place (I know there’s some who can’t), and speaking only in terms of long-term indicators like structure, finances, squad development, new talent and a lasting impact on the character and style of our football...

Are we better off now than we were 4 seasons ago?
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Yes but those in bold are largely down to the TV deals.

Squad development is about on par imo

And what is the lasting impact on our character and style you speak off?
Flair, fearless play and scoring for fun or
Diving, delusional excuses and a defence that couldn't stop a bus?..

Honestly, no idea if we are better off, in some ways yes, in others clearly not. I will support him till we find out, but it doesn't make the results any less palatable.

All this talk of a tremendous squad, and yet its borderline useless, why? Take over 6th, spend money, make us look pretty, start finishing bottom half... I'm not convinced how much better off we are tbh.
 
chicoazul said:
We have one of the best away records in the league and have reached a semi and quarter final (at least).

It doesn't compensate for the dump suffered at Goodison but it does show that wider picture it's not all doom and gloom. Certainly not sufficient to fire the manager now.

I just read an open letter to "Mr Moshiri" on his first day begging him to fire Martinez.

Welcome to Newcastle Farhid.
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2006-07 6th
2007-08 5th
2008-09 5th
2009-10 8th
2010-11 7th
2011-12 7th
2012-13 6th
2013-14 5th
2014-15 11th
Currently 12th

I suspect people are more concerned about the last two figures than the breakdown of how our away form is doing compared to others around us.
Cup run could be good, but many think we will lose first time we get decent opposition, sadly that's my guess too, we just look like a weak team with a good forward line imo.
There is always hope, but Martinez is sucking it out of me with every 'raised ambition' month that goes by.
 
Ihaters said:
2006-07 6th
2007-08 5th
2008-09 5th
2009-10 8th
2010-11 7th
2011-12 7th
2012-13 6th
2013-14 5th
2014-15 11th
Currently 12th

I suspect people are more concerned about the last two figures than the breakdown of how our away form is doing compared to others around us.
Cup run could be good, but many think we will lose first time we get decent opposition, sadly that's my guess too, we just look like a weak team with a good forward line imo.
There is always hope, but Martinez is sucking it out of me with every 'raised ambition' month that goes by.
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Five wins in seven games mate with the recent loss being playing with ten men for an hour.

Just think it's a little over the top all time demanding him to be fired, especially on the eve of a big game this weekend.
 
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