Current Affairs 2020 Democratic Primary

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Prevenger17 said:
He's got a real bang of Trudeau about him
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This. Beto is a pretty face with nothing to say (unless you really like blogs circa 1996 as a genre)

I don't imagine anyone follows Canadian politics - there is certainly no reason why anyone should - but things are going spectacularly badly for Trudeau just now, and he will probably lose to the latest in the series of dim-witted but hot-tempered suburban prairie mall cops that Canadian Tories bizarrely rally behind
 
abelard said:
the US population grows by about 10 million people every 4 years

it takes exceptional, staggering ineptitude NOT to break the record for turnout each time, which Clinton of course managed

she is the worst Democratic candidate since Mondale, but even that is unfair to him because he at least actually believed in something other than his own divine personal right to be the President
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Except it's ludicrous to present Clinton as if she were somehow more (or less) motivated by a lust for power than any other figure who's had such a long and varied career in public life. Again, it's GOP propaganda leavened with bipartisan misogyny and it brushes aside decades of accomplishment as irrelevant.

Take someone like Bernie Sanders. He's an old, shouty guy of no great attainment as a legislator, but he's managed to get his ideas across and now his policy priorities have been taken up by various Dem candidates. Still, he's decided that he's going to run again rather than deferring to another, younger candidate. How do you respond to claims that he's only running because of a belief in "his own divine personal right to be the president?"
 
abelard said:
This. Beto is a pretty face with nothing to say (unless you really like blogs circa 1996 as a genre)

I don't imagine anyone follows Canadian politics - there is certainly no reason why anyone should - but things are going spectacularly badly for Trudeau just now, and he will probably lose to the latest in the series of dim-witted but hot-tempered suburban prairie mall cops that Canadian Tories bizarrely rally behind
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And there it is, the obligatory shot at Canada. And who are these prairie mall cops you refer to? Harper (born in Toronto and as far from dim-witted and hot-tempered as they come), or Andrew Scheer, (born in Ottawa and former Speaker of the House, again far from dim-witted or hot-tempered)? Once again, your ignorance of my country reveals itself to new depths. Thing are going badly for Trudeau because he's the dim-witted one who's in way over his head.
 
canuckblue said:
And there it is, the obligatory shot at Canada. And who are these prairie mall cops you refer to? Harper (born in Toronto and as far from dim-witted and hot-tempered as they come), or Andrew Scheer, (born in Ottawa and former Speaker of the House, again far from dim-witted or hot-tempered)? Once again, your ignorance of my country reveals itself to new depths. Thing are going badly for Trudeau because he's the dim-witted one who's in way over his head.
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Mate, it's a politics thread. Sweeping rhetoric is how we roll
 
canuckblue said:
And there it is, the obligatory shot at Canada. And who are these prairie mall cops you refer to? Harper (born in Toronto and as far from dim-witted and hot-tempered as they come), or Andrew Scheer, (born in Ottawa and former Speaker of the House, again far from dim-witted or hot-tempered)? Once again, your ignorance of my country reveals itself to new depths. Thing are going badly for Trudeau because he's the dim-witted one who's in way over his head.
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FWIW. A very good friend of mine worked quite high up in the PMO under Harper. I was always impressed by his stories of Harper’s intellect, integrity, and seriousness. He spoke highly of Scheer as well—-this was prior to winning the party leadership position.
 
[Deleted Member] said:
This system is so rigged lol

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Genuine question, why is that an example of the system being rigged?

Think it’s a pretty reasonable step. You can’t host a decent debate with 20-30 candidates, so they’ve set a couple of thresholds to get in, one of which is to be able to demonstrate a decent level of grassroots support. The other (iirc) is to be averaging a certain % across a range of opinion polls.

Seems like anything but a “system is rigged” situation.
 
Prevenger17 said:
It would be great if all that good stuff mattered to the American electorate. I think the elections of the last 30 years have more or less pointed to the fact that the winning candidate is usually the most charismatic one. Clinton, Bush, Obama and Trump were in different leagues to their opponents in terms of aura and their ability to deliver a message. Warren is clearly one of the most capable and smart politicians in the country, but does she have that x factor? (hate to use that term, but it fits here)
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It doesn’t matter to some of the electorate, certainly... but I’d wager the majority of those to whom it doesn’t matter are going to vote for Trump anyway.

sdk said:
Clinton’s “low turnout” won her more votes than any Democratic presidential candidate ever, excepting Obama. So much of what people take as given about her is the result of 25 years of right wing propaganda.
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abelard said:
the US population grows by about 10 million people every 4 years

it takes exceptional, staggering ineptitude NOT to break the record for turnout each time, which Clinton of course managed

she is the worst Democratic candidate since Mondale, but even that is unfair to him because he at least actually believed in something other than his own divine personal right to be the President
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She was a terrible (if astoundingly qualifies) candidate.

And yet still won the popular vote by ~3m, and only lost the EC by 80,000 votes across three states - even in the middle of an unprecedented interference effort from a foreign government, and a truly woeful piece of decision making from an FBI Director a week before the election...

And yet there’s people on here questioning whether Trump is beatable this time round - when on top of the above, he won’t have the protection of people being able to project what they HOPE he will become, rather than what he now demonstrably IS
 
BirkenheadBlue said:
To be fair, having seen what happened in the election and what’s happened since - would YOU admit to it if you were one of them?
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yea, probably.
I just think there was a huge amount of anonymous troll accounts on all sides, serving misinformation. There was a concerted effort to paint Sanders supporters as misogynistic frat boys, there was also an effort to paint Clinton as the devil incarnate.
Sure, a lot of Sanders voters didn't vote for Clinton but if you actually look at the figures, it's about the same amount as Clinton supporters who voted for McCain ahead of Obama in 2008.
It's always tricky to unify after a hard fought primary and it's getting trickier due to the anonymity of the internet.
All I'm saying is that I know a whole lot of people who voted for Sanders in the primary and not one publicly abstained from the GE because they though Clinton was as bad as Trump.
Could well be localized, I get that.
 
Ruairi77 said:
heard a lot about these people but never actually met one. Funny that.
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Given turnout among young people, which is a large section of Bernie's support, was the lowest of any age demographic they either exist or his support is a lot smaller than people care to admit
 
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