Current Affairs 2020 Democratic Primary

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Yes, Sanders lost in 2016 because he was obliterated in every Southern state.

This was in part because of the Clintons' mysterious esteem and seemingly unwarranted support from older African-African American voters, and in part because the Sanders campaign in no way expected to do so well, and was assembled more or less on the fly, especially in the South.

I think he will perform a bit better there this time, because his team is now far more professional and prepared, and has years of grassroots organisation to draw upon.

And, Sanders really does appeal to younger African-American and Hispanic voters, in a way that the media is reluctant to acknowledge - though as always, mobilising turnout will be critical.

I expect the Southern vote to split three ways this time, between Sanders, Biden, and Harris.

The interesting question will be whether this becomes a two-way race or a three-way race - in other words, to what extent Biden's support holds.

Biden is gaffe prone, a weak debater, and utterly empty on policy; in general, the more people know about him the less they like him.

Meanwhile, Sanders' initial position is strong enough that he can mostly set Biden aside, focusing on Trump and running an otherwise positive campaign.

Conversely, the more uncommitted voters know about him - which is to say, the more encounter him directly, rather than via hostile media curation - the more they like him.

The others, on the other hand, will need to go after Biden with all guns blazing if they are to make any sort of mark.

They clearly all think Biden is there for the taking though, or there would not be so many of them.

I still think that if Harris can win enough African-American voters, this combined with her visual and narrative appeal to self-righteous well-educated posh 'wokeness obligé' white liberals makes her a strong potential candidate to emerge between Sanders and Biden.

On the other hand, if Biden's support among uninformed and/or demented boomers holds, the question then becomes: which way do the others go?

The Party hierarchy will attempt to put the Fear of God into anyone tempted to back Sanders (just like they did by immediately blacklisting anyone attempting to foster the next AOC).

But even then, I suspect it will be clear to the candidates if not the DCCC brass that in the long run, Biden is not a smart bet.

Sanders voters' time may not arrive quite yet, but the writing is the wall; it is difficult to see how the vaguely progressive image that milquetoast corporate mascots like O'Rourke, Buttigieg, Harris or Gillibrand aspire for could survive association with a handsy warmongering racist corporate errand-boy like Biden. Stacy Abrams, for instance, wasted little time nipping the prospect of having her photo taken next to him in the bud.

I think you're right about the importance of beating Trump, but only to an extent.

This matters far more to older voters than it does to their children - much of the evil-orange-man-did-another-stupid #resistance is fuelled by comfortable suburban boomers with medicare, pensions, and paid-off mortgages, and lacking a built-up tolerance to social media hysteria (akin to how alcohol proved especially devastating when introduced to previously unexposed Native American communities hundreds of years ago).

But for younger people and anyone outside posh suburbs or the coasts, underemployment, mountains of debt, and bleak prospects all make winding the clock back to 3 November 2016 and pretending like nothing ever happened a distinctly unappealing option.

For these voters, Beat Trump is necessary, but not sufficient.

Beat Trump also begs the question: how best to do it? Was America Already Great, or are transformative changes required?

I know what my answer is, but I am not so sure the Democratic Party does... ; )

Usual response here.
You've way too much faith in Sanders support.
As far as I can see, nobody here is pushing Biden, more pushing the idea that he has a lot of support.
You're correct about not everyone voting to beat Trump.
The GE was on Nov 8 2016 ;)
 
Sanders voters' time may not arrive quite yet, but the writing is the wall; it is difficult to see how the vaguely progressive image that milquetoast corporate mascots like O'Rourke, Buttigieg, Harris or Gillibrand aspire for could survive association with a handsy warmongering racist corporate errand-boy like Biden.
I don’t know what gave me the idea that Sanders supporters have a predilection for attacking other Democrats who deign to Have a different viewpoint.
 
aw... sorry to make you feel unsafe
Wonderfully mature response. Not really up to your usual standards of ungrounded condescension.

However it did put me in mind of something... You mentioned something about a “Kopite view” a few days ago, and while it was a fairly nonsensical point at the time, Sanders actually does have something in common with our Red neighbours.

Their fans make me dislike the thing they support way more than I would otherwise do, too.
 
Wonderfully mature response. Not really up to your usual standards of ungrounded condescension.

However it did put me in mind of something... You mentioned something about a “Kopite view” a few days ago, and while it was a fairly nonsensical point at the time, Sanders actually does have something in common with our Red neighbours.

Their fans make me dislike the thing they support way more than I would otherwise do, too.

This is literally a discussion forum.

I don't understand why you take my characterisation of Democratic candidates personally, but I am not going to withhold my views to spare your fluttery emotions.

I have been commenting on Trump, Tories, Republicans, and their supporters in exactly the same manner for years (a depressing thought, to be sure) and not one of you has ever had a problem with my tone - until I starting saying things you don't like about the Party you support.

I challenge you to identify a single thing about my description of Biden that is untrue, or unfair.

You recently objected to the very notion of a website which criticises him, simply by pointing out his past record, though you've likewise yet to identify a single factual error.

As I reminded Steve recently, I have been more critical of the candidates I support thus far than you have about any Democrat, likely at any time on this forum.

If you want to understand Republican support for Trump, look no further than your own credulity and lack of critical awareness about the other side.

Blind support, suspension of critical judgement is also reminiscent of this:
supporttee.jpg


hence my comparison.
 
I expect the Southern vote to split three ways this time, between Sanders, Biden, and Harris.

I still think that if Harris can win enough African-American voters, this combined with her visual and narrative appeal to self-righteous well-educated posh 'wokeness obligé' white liberals makes her a strong potential candidate to emerge between Sanders and Biden.
I am slightly surprised that Harris isn’t doing better in the poll tbh as I too thought on paper she would be a strong candidate however at only one of the townhalls I watched was she particularly well received.

She still seems to need to work out exactly what her key message is and quite how to position herself ideologically between Biden and Sanders.
 
I am slightly surprised that Harris isn’t doing better in the poll tbh as I too thought on paper she would be a strong candidate however at only one of the townhalls I watched was she particularly well received.

She still seems to need to work out exactly what her key message is and quite how to position herself ideologically between Biden and Sanders.

Me too, though it's still early.

It really shouldn't be so difficult for her or anyone else to present themselves as a more appealing establishment choice than Biden.

If she doesn't win South Carolina, or come at least third in Iowa or NH, she's probably in trouble.
 


Unfortunately small sample size (475) in this poll, would be interested in one that asked the same quesion but to a larger group as think it an useful companion to the more typcial “which candidate would you vote for if the election was held today”

Gabbard and DeBlasio have very high “not considering” numbers in this survey.
 
Me too, though it's still early.

It really shouldn't be so difficult for her or anyone else to present themselves as a more appealing establishment choice than Biden.

If she doesn't win South Carolina, or come at least third in Iowa or NH, she's probably in trouble.
I don’t think she is going to win SC if these polls are anywhere close to accurate....


Not having super PACs is going to mean that candidates who do poorly in the first few rounds are going to have more trouble hanging on than the Republican primary contenders in 2012/2016
 
I don’t think she is going to win SC if these polls are anywhere close to accurate....


Not having super PACs is going to mean that candidates who do poorly in the first few rounds are going to have more trouble hanging on than the Republican primary contenders in 2012/2016


Not looking good. Though for reference, at this time in 2015, the leading Republicans were, in order, Walker, Bush, Christie, Huckabee, Carson - albeit with lower numbers than Biden is showing.
 
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