Current Affairs 2020 Democratic Primary

[evilwebby]

lol best get rid of all taxation then

Federal Income tax was only introduced in 1913 and it was sold as a tax on the top 2%. Look how that turned out.

 

[neil999]

Federal Income tax was only introduced in 1913 and it was sold as a tax on the top 2%. Look how that turned out.

so whats your point?

modern society cant exist without taxation, using the founding fathers as a reason for not allowing progressive policy is bizarre and ludicrous

 

[TN Toffee]

so whats your point?

modern society cant exist without taxation, using the founding fathers as a reason for not allowing progressive policy is bizarre and ludicrous

Yet it’s the exact same argument that people make for why they should be allowed to own any and all guns that their heart desires, supposedly to defend themselves from the government.

I remember making the argument to a guy one time that no matter how big and bad of a gun he owned, the government is always going to have something bigger and badder. The discussion followed a predictable course to its conclusion, in which he eventually decided that a private citizen should in fact be allowed to possess a nuclear warhead, so long as they did so responsibly.

 

[BirkenheadBlue]

Yep. The founding fathers would have been dismayed that their Republic had come to such ideas. The declaration of independence makes no mention of the right of everyone to have access to universal healthcare.

What is "wrong" with it is that something that is provided for free to some groups must pad for by someone else. By the interpretation of strict constitutionalists, this contravenes the underlying principle of America enshrined in its founding principle - the right of "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" of those groups who are asked to pay for it.

If the fruits of your life and liberty are your money, and this is forcibly taken away from you in the form of taxation to pay for the welfare of others, they have taken away part of your supposedly inalienable right of life and liberty.

The US Constitution was designed to protect people from the encroachment of overbearing government by treating everyone as an equal in the eyes of the law; to protect people from the sort of thing Sanders wants to use the resources of the Government today to achieve. Hence property rights were also a core principle; the idea of limited government meant that you couldn't simply outvote someone who didn't want to give up their property rights just because someone wanted to build a railroad through their backyard (ofr example).

Wow, and here was me giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you were being facetious with the first of those two posts.

 

[evilwebby]

Wow, and here was me giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you were being facetious with the first of those two posts.

Why wow?
America is not Europe. The values that built America are different to those that built Europe.

America is known as the land of Freedom and Opportunity, not the land of security and social justice.

 

[sdk]

America is not Europe.

And the early 21st century is not the late 18th century.

 

[Prevenger17]

America is known as the land of Freedom and Opportunity, not the land of security and social justice.

Those same ideals fostered slavery for hundreds of years, and segregation for decades after that. Is it not possible that it is still imperfect and changing the parameters slightly so that sickness doesn't have to result in bankruptcy and crippling debt can actually contribute to a free society?

Also, the US has 4% of the world's population and 22% of its prisoners, I reckon the freedom-loving founding fathers would have been yanking their collar at that statistic. Maybe lads from 200 years ago didn't have all the answers for the year 2020 I dunno

 

[evilwebby]

Also, the US has 4% of the world's population and 22% of its prisoners, I reckon the freedom-loving founding fathers would have been yanking their collar at that statistic. Maybe lads from 200 years ago didn't have all the answers for the year 2020 I dunno

Well, you know, it's amazing how many prisons and detention centers you are able to build when they are federally funded.

 

[Prevenger17]

Well, you know, it's amazing how many prisons and detention centers you are able to build when they are federally funded.

And often privately run. Do you think that the US has achieved perfection in it's healthcare system or that it is in perfect alignment with the founding fathers' vision?

 

[TN Toffee]

Those same ideals fostered slavery for hundreds of years, and segregation for decades after that. Is it not possible that it is still imperfect and changing the parameters slightly so that sickness doesn't have to result in bankruptcy and crippling debt can actually contribute to a free society?

Also, the US has 4% of the world's population and 22% of its prisoners, I reckon the freedom-loving founding fathers would have been yanking their collar at that statistic. Maybe lads from 200 years ago didn't have all the answers for the year 2020 I dunno

Are you implying that a group of men whose concept of health care was a man who arrived at their estate on horseback when they were sick might not have laid out the answers for how to provide citizens with basic care in the 21st century? Madness.

With each individual’s health being such a lottery, I don’t really see it being very in line with the “American Dream” that a person could have the misfortune of suffering from some sort of illness in their 20’s and then forced to live the rest of their life under the weight of crushing debt. Just imagine being 30, having just had part of your 20’s stolen from you as you battled cancer, and now entering the world with very likely over $1M in debt, all from something that was COMPLETELY outside of your control.

 

[BirkenheadBlue]

Are you implying that a group of men whose concept of health care was a man who arrived at their estate on horseback when they were sick might not have laid out the answers for how to provide citizens with basic care in the 21st century? Madness.

With each individual’s health being such a lottery, I don’t really see it being very in line with the “American Dream” that a person could have the misfortune of suffering from some sort of illness in their 20’s and then forced to live the rest of their life under the weight of crushing debt. Just imagine being 30, having just had part of your 20’s stolen from you as you battled cancer, and now entering the world with very likely over $1M in debt, all from something that was COMPLETELY outside of your control.

Not to mention people who hit their lifetime insurance cap before leaving the hospital following their complicated birth.

 

[Death]

The polls got rigged in Iowa. Every single inconsistency was taking points away from Bernie sanders.

 

[LinekersLegs]

The polls got rigged in Iowa. Every single inconsistency was taking points away from Bernie sanders.

Not going to remotely pretend that Iowa in any way competently handled but to say "rigged" and "every single inconsistency was taking points away from Bernie Sanders" seems a tad of an over reaction



and

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www.washingtonpost.com

 

[Death]

Not going to remotely pretend that Iowa in any way competently handled but to say "rigged" and "every single inconsistency was taking points away from Bernie Sanders" seems a tad of an over reaction



and

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www.washingtonpost.com

ok maybe hyperbole from me but surely Bernie would have edged it at the least. There was back dealings going on for the 2016 race. It makes sense. Money and big business run the show and Bernie is a thorn in the side off all that and his passed make them know he’s the real deal and can’t be bought.

 

[RAFUH]

She is good at zingers