Current Affairs 2017 General Election

[evilwebby]

The biggest area of growth will be in preventative services that aim to keep us well in the first place. The NHS has historically done this incredibly badly, and I just don't think they have the resources to develop such services today. The key will be to ensure the services we commission ourselves to do this effectively integrate with NHS services (especially from a data perspective).

For instance, at the moment there are a wide range of tools and services you can get to help you self-manage things like diabetes or mental health, but its rare for these services to synch with your medical records, so your GP is largely unaware of them.

Indeed..

Unfortunately Healthcare has been built upon a model of treating the symptom rather than fixing the problem, and then further compounded by public health policy which has taken an approach to basic healthcare and nutrition which is not only obsolete but most sensible people agree is highly damaging (calories, food pyramid etc). IMO until we can have a sensible discussion about the mistakes in public health policy that we have continued to make for 40 years then we will continue further down the path of an ever-sicker population and mounting healthcare costs (doesn't matter who is in charge). I'm of the opinion that if you threw twice as much money at the problem then you'd only make things worse because it acts as further incentive for the players in the industry to keep the status quo.

 

[abelard]

The biggest area of growth will be in preventative services that aim to keep us well in the first place.

a more preventative approach to health care is by far the most promising means of delivering a nimble and effective national health system, though it's mostly been neglected in the UK, and indeed the Anglosphere full-stop. it is the secret to Cuba's impressive health outcomes, for instance.

one of the key obstacles is that truly preventative health care would mean tackling a range of serious social problems which are not conventionally regarded as health care-related. in first year medical school (at least in Canada) one of the first things you learn is that social inequality and poor health outcomes are intimately and inextricably linked. this is more or less cannonical is among medical and public health professionals, and extensively documented, but not yet well understood by policy-makers or the public at large. the opposite of health is poverty, in other words. high rates of conditions like adult-onset diabetes, obesity, drug and alcohol abuse, or mental illness reveal much more about the health of a given society than its individual constituents.

the problem is that working to resolve this would entail much broader changes to UK society than simply tweaking the NHS - you would need to do things like take wealth inequality seriously; improve access to affordable, healthy food; promote exercise; improve working conditions; reduce the stress that results from things like debt/zero hours contracts etc; and work on improving less tangible but equally dramatic influences on health, such as reducing alienation and restoring a sense of belonging and community.

this is the sort of program that requires government planning and investment, so it will have spiteful shire Tories who make a sport of blaming the poor, or liberal ideologues who outsource their opinions to the op-ed sections of the Economist or Financial Times, reaching for their smelling salts. the UK has a deep historical and ideological committment to inequality - and that's why if it wasn't for America it would be last on so many measures of social well-being among developed nations.

 

[JonS]

ukip going in hard on islam, they are basically turning into the BNP now...that isnt gonna get them any new votes, i suspect they might cease to exist after this election

I'm not going to defend UKIP as a whole and agree they may soon cease to exist (without Farage they are nothing).

That said I don't see it as racist or anti Muslim to want to tackle some of the things they mention - FGM, sharia law courts etc.

We have certain values in this country and if you are in the country you should have to abide by them.

To ignore such things out of misguided political correctness is condemning citizens of the country to ill treatment.

This should apply to anyone, not just muslims

 

[neil999]

I'm not going to defend UKIP as a whole and agree they may soon cease to exist (without Farage they are nothing).

That said I don't see it as racist or anti Muslim to want to tackle some of the things they mention - FGM, sharia law courts etc.

We have certain values in this country and if you are in the country you should have to abide by them.

To ignore such things out of misguided political correctness is condemning citizens of the country to ill treatment.

This should apply to anyone, not just muslims

FGM...i agree 100%, but maybe not by having yearly medical examinations on girls for goodness sakes...

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

ukip going in hard on islam, they are basically turning into the BNP now...that isnt gonna get them any new votes, i suspect they might cease to exist after this election

They really aren't becoming like the BNP mate. Let's be sensible here, you can dislike a UKIP for their ludicrous policy's without comparing them to holocaust deniers. UKIP are a joke and always have been, their the Dad's Army of politics. Nobody ever really voted for UKIP, people voted for Nigel Farrage because it was a glorified personality cult. I'm sorry but Paul Nuttel is no Nick Griffin no matter how odious you or I may find him to be.

 

[JonS]

They really aren't becoming like the BNP mate. Let's be sensible here, you can dislike a UKIP for their ludicrous policy's without comparing them to holocaust deniers. UKIP are a joke and always have been, their the Dad's Army of politics. Nobody ever really voted for UKIP, people voted for Nigel Farrage because it was a glorified personality cult. I'm sorry but Paul Nuttel ia no Nick Griffin no matter how odious you or I may find him to be.

Agreed mate, they are more laughable than dangerous

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

Agreed mate, they are more laughable than dangerous

It was all Farrage mate. Everything that party achieved was down to him. They were a joke pre Farrage and they're a joke again now he's gone. He's what people voted for not that ridiculous little party. But it's still madness to compare them to the BNP!

 

[neil999]

They really aren't becoming like the BNP mate. Let's be sensible here, you can dislike a UKIP for their ludicrous policy's without comparing them to holocaust deniers. UKIP are a joke and always have been, their the Dad's Army of politics. Nobody ever really voted for UKIP, people voted for Nigel Farrage because it was a glorified personality cult. I'm sorry but Paul Nuttel is no Nick Griffin no matter how odious you or I may find him to be.

they are headed down that road, they have nowhere to go on brexit so are concentrating on islam

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

they are headed down that road, they have nowhere to go on brexit so are concentrating on islam

It's possible to criticise Islam (for the record I have zero interest of doing so myself!) without becoming the BNP though. Imo UKIP will be dead by 2020 and nobody will mourn their passing.

 

[JonS]

I'm happy to criticise Islam. In my lifetime (much of which I have spent living in multicultural areas with high Islamic populations) I've seen it change to become a more severe and fundamentalist form with mass covering up of women and children (two muslim women I work with have changed from not covering up to covering up in the last few years. An Indian woman of hindu descent I know got shouted at in the East End of London for not wearing a hijab). And reported importing of a Saudi form of Islam called Wahaabiism via Saudi funding of our Mosques and Imans.

Then there was the Channel 4 undercover doc on the women in burkas and the fundementalist support for terrorism that they showed behind closed doors.

To me people are scared to talk about it out of misguided political correctness.

This is what helps drive ordinary people away from mainstream parties

 

[Tubey]

I'm happy to criticise Islam. In my lifetime (much of which I have spent living in multicultural areas with high Islamic populations) I've seen it change to become a more severe and fundamentalist form with mass covering up of women and children (two muslim women I work with have changed from not covering up to covering up in the last few years. An Indian woman of hindu descent I know got shouted at in the East End of London for not wearing a hijab). And reported importing of a Saudi form of Islam called Wahaabiism via Saudi funding of our Mosques and Imans.

Then there was the Channel 4 undercover doc on the women in burkas and the fundementalist support for terrorism that they showed behind closed doors.

To me people are scared to talk about it out of misguided political correctness.

This is what helps drive ordinary people away from mainstream parties

Criticising Islam is fine, as long as you do in a sensible, rational and balanced way.

Unfortunately, much of the discussion is extreme in nature and borne by those unwilling to bend to actually learn about the issue.

So it's not just the fault of the mainstream parties that discussion is stifled; it's also the fault of all too many who come at it from an inherently racist angle, and the willingness of those not inherently racist to join the discussion on that platform regardless.

 

[gorgeousgeorgeEFC]

Theresa May really turns me on.

I could imagine her playing the role of a domineering headmistress.

 

[neil999]

Criticising Islam is fine, as long as you do in a sensible, rational and balanced way.

Unfortunately, much of the discussion is extreme in nature and borne by those unwilling to bend to actually learn about the issue.

So it's not just the fault of the mainstream parties that discussion is stifled; it's also the fault of all too many who come at it from an inherently racist angle, and the willingness of those not inherently racist to join the discussion on that platform regardless.

its the anecdotal evidence i dont like

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

Theresa May really turns me on.

I could imagine her playing the role of a domineering headmistress.

 

[JonS]

Criticising Islam is fine, as long as you do in a sensible, rational and balanced way.

Unfortunately, much of the discussion is extreme in nature and borne by those unwilling to bend to actually learn about the issue.

So it's not just the fault of the mainstream parties that discussion is stifled; it's also the fault of all too many who come at it from an inherently racist angle, and the willingness of those not inherently racist to join the discussion on that platform regardless.

its the anecdotal evidence i dont like

Discussion is NOT accepted. Maybe this board is more tolerant to it than most but when have you ever seen a discussion on the BBC or anywhere else.

Neil you may not like anecdotal evidence but I deliberately posted what I have personally witnessed for that reason. I could add more about what I have personally witnessed but it is of little consequence

For me people can do what they want AS LONG AS NO ONE ELSE IS HARMED BY THAT OR COERCED.

As I am very little directly affected and don't have kids that might be affected by this (don't laugh but my first girlfriend was Muslim so if we had had any kids they could have been) I am not that bothered and don't spend all my time going mad about it.

Why am I posting all this then?

It's because some of you who are rightly very quick to stand up for women's and other peoples rights seem to be too scared to do so when rights might be infringed in or by one of our minority communities.

In other words I'm more annoyed at some of you lot who should know better than the Muslim's themselves.

It is political correctness gone mad or out of peoples fears of their own predudices.

This is what drives people to Le Pen etc. People are not fooled. They see liberal hipocrisy for what it is