Current Affairs The 2020 United States Presidential Election

[TN Toffee]

Wherever this coup took its lead and succour from it needs to be rooted out with lightening speed and dealt with by handing down heavy sentences. Any armed resistance should be put down with maximum force.

And Trump cant be allowed to see his days out as president. It'd be a calamity if he weren't at least impeached between now and Inauguration Day. Then the Biden administration needs to make sure he's imprisoned. I've argued that since the election, and this week has underlined I was right for seeing it that way.

I have a feeling he will at least be impeached again given the Democratic majority in the House right now, but I doubt it will be before Biden is inaugurated. I’m pretty sure Congress is in recess through the end of next week anyway.

 

[tsubaki]

My point is one leads to the other. It doesn't matter if legit channels hadn't work, you don't celebrate vandalism, as you then endorse other acts by doing so.

I'm not drawing an equivalence between the two - I'm simply explaining how celebrating one act go violence means you are complicit in encouraging the other.

Again, there's no such thing as a "good" riot, regardless of motivation.

Surely you have that backwards? I mean, there has always been a racist aspect to economic supremacy in the US - even before country was founded, as a justification for what they were doing to the natives / the enslaved and then as a means to prevent class solidarity from forming amongst the poor. Almost everything that is at issue here - economic and social injustices, the civil war, political suppression, putting provocative and offensive memorials up, attacks on those memorials, using force to remove / attempt to remove governments that some people at the top do not like, the vast sums spent on media networks to push out all that divisive crap etc etc - stems out of that.

Even implying that celebrating the attacks on statues - which span out of protests against the killing of unarmed men and women by the state lets not forget - is linked to this wrong. They were largely spontaneous acts, this wasn't.

 

[Hickson9]

My point is one leads to the other. It doesn't matter if legit channels hadn't work, you don't celebrate vandalism, as you then endorse other acts by doing so.

I'm not drawing an equivalence between the two - I'm simply explaining how celebrating one act go violence means you are complicit in encouraging the other.

Again, there's no such thing as a "good" riot, regardless of motivation.

I don't think you can equate the toppling of a slavers statue in Bristol to a fascist, terrorist attack on the Capitol of the US, as Congress is in Joint Session, in an attempt to overturn the democratic Presidential elections of the United States, in which a Police Officer was murdered.

 

[dead_soft]

Spot on. Tried to explain this the other day.

Same with the tactic of saying "oh it wasn't us" when things go wrong. BLM protests were not "non-violent", and claiming they were allows things like the other day to happen with the proviso of "largely non-violent" too.

Thus there's no accountability. This, again, isn't false equivalency, as obviously one was grander in scale than the other, but as you say one sets the precedent for the other, and one antagonises the other.

There's no such thing as a "good" riot.

Is your belief that the riots on 6th Jan wouldn't have happened if the BLM protests hadn't damaged some property?

 

[Tubey]

Is your belief that the riots on 6th Jan wouldn't have happened if the BLM protests hadn't damaged some property?

This has gone back years, but yes, Trump's scaremongering about losing the country if Biden gets in etc. wouldn't have been effective if people hadn't had months and months of protests and riots fresh in their minds.

That's just a fact. These actions didn't happen in a vacuum. They were reacting to circumstance.

 

[Tubey]

Surely you have that backwards? I mean, there has always been a racist aspect to economic supremacy in the US - even before country was founded, as a justification for what they were doing to the natives / the enslaved and then as a means to prevent class solidarity from forming amongst the poor. Almost everything that is at issue here - economic and social injustices, the civil war, political suppression, putting provocative and offensive memorials up, attacks on those memorials, using force to remove / attempt to remove governments that some people at the top do not like, the vast sums spent on media networks to push out all that divisive crap etc etc - stems out of that.

Even implying that celebrating the attacks on statues - which span out of protests against the killing of unarmed men and women by the state lets not forget - is linked to this wrong. They were largely spontaneous acts, this wasn't.

The attacks on the Capitol were not spontaneous, they were reactive to perceived injustices.

I assume you'd correctly be able to follow how 9/11 occurred due to US foreign policy over many years inspiring radicalism in the middle east, for example. Same principle here - the Capitol attacks didn't happen apropos of nothing, they happened for a reason, a cause that Trump was able to inspire due to the actions of others first.

 

[dead_soft]

This has gone back years, but yes, Trump's scaremongering about losing the country if Biden gets in etc. wouldn't have been effective if people hadn't had months and months of protests and riots fresh in their minds.

That's just a fact. These actions didn't happen in a vacuum. They were reacting to circumstance.

It's not a 'fact' thought, is it? It's an opinion and discredits the argument to suggest it is a fact.

I just don't buy that Trump's constant stoking of division and anger, and suggestions of a deep state, and telling Proud Boys to stand by, and more, relied on some statues getting smashed to lead to this. This wasn't a diner box that blew the next day, it was months after, and because they've been told the election was stolen when it wasn't.

Even if it was the case, A leading to B doesn't in itself make A wrong.

 

[Tubey]

It's not a 'fact' thought, is it? It's an opinion and discredits the argument to suggest it is a fact.

I just don't buy that Trump's constant stoking of division and anger, and suggestions of a deep state, and telling Proud Boys to stand by, and more, relied on some statues getting smashed to lead to this. This wasn't a diner box that blew the next day, it was months after, and because they've been told the election was stolen when it wasn't.

Even if it was the case, A leading to B doesn't in itself make A wrong.

No it is literally a fact unless you believe the Proud Boys just woke up one day and decided to smash up the Capitol.

Trumps rhetoric wouldn't have worked if there was no realistic "threat" that he could take advantage of. The BLM riots was that threat; he took advantage.

At the same time, the BLM protests didn't happen in a vacuum; they too were reactive to circumstance. But at some point there has to be a deescalation - people need to stop fighting fire with fire.

 

[Charro]

This has gone back years, but yes, Trump's scaremongering about losing the country if Biden gets in etc. wouldn't have been effective if people hadn't had months and months of protests and riots fresh in their minds.

That's just a fact. These actions didn't happen in a vacuum. They were reacting to circumstance.

That’s not a fact though, is it?

Im enjoying sitting back in this thread and watching you try to attach part of the blame to BLM.

Your reaction to these riots seem to differ quite a lot your reaction to the BLM protests/partial riots.

 

[Prevenger17]

Tubes really has it in for BLM

 

[Tubey]

That’s not a fact though, is it?

Im enjoying sitting back in this thread and watching you try to attach part of the blame to BLM.

Your reaction to these riots seem to differ quite a lot your reaction to the BLM protests/partial riots.

Ha does it?

I've said repeatedly this is the worst ever, by a massive margin. Go back and read my posts before making stupid comments eh?

 

[dead_soft]

No it is literally a fact unless you believe the Proud Boys just woke up one day and decided to smash up the Capitol.

Trumps rhetoric wouldn't have worked if there was no realistic "threat" that he could take advantage of. The BLM riots was that threat; he took advantage.

At the same time, the BLM protests didn't happen in a vacuum; they too were reactive to circumstance. But at some point there has to be a deescalation - people need to stop fighting fire with fire.

It's really not a fact. It's an opinion. No one has suggested the Proud Boys woke up one day and decided on a whim. They have been stoked up by Trump and bigots who have a reason for this. They have been getting stoked up for years and then been lied to that an election has been stolen. To try and lay part of the blame on the BLM protests just to support your own beliefs they were wrong is pretty simplistic.

 

[tsubaki]

This has gone back years, but yes, Trump's scaremongering about losing the country if Biden gets in etc. wouldn't have been effective if people hadn't had months and months of protests and riots fresh in their minds.

That's just a fact. These actions didn't happen in a vacuum. They were reacting to circumstance.

I agree with that bit, but again that forgets everything that went before it - as perhaps the most obvious example, theres Charlottesville:

... which came out of an entirely legal, politically-sanctioned decision to remove a statue (ie: how things should happen, according to almost everyone).

The result was a rally called by a nazi, at which nazis were visibly present, nazi slogans and banners were displayed, firearms were openly carried and then a nazi murdered one person and tried to murder many others.

 

[Death]

Jesus christ I suppose a gun is a substitute for a brain I guess?

It's kinda like a choice not to think. Like the 7 foot hard lad from the nieghbourhood never seems to be the brightest. Or the super model who gets things handed to them through life. They posses something that makes them not need to thave to think critically. They may have it in them but dont feel they have to so don't.

 

[Charro]

Ha does it?

I've said repeatedly this is the worst ever, by a massive margin. Go back and read my posts before making stupid comments eh?

I know what you’ve said. You’ve condemned it like everyone else, how couldn’t you.

What you’re doing now though is offering a defence of their actions by attaching part of the blame to the BLM movement.

Even gone so far to say it’s an actual fact these riots are a reaction to the BLM protests.

I’d say what happened the other night was in the planning for the last two years, long before the BLM protests. It’s all part of the playbook.