2019/20 Marcel Brands

[ForeverBlue92]

There is that Dave but if BK had not done that where would we have been if stayed under Johnson.

Tbf Johnson would have sold up when the Sheikhs came sniffing around.

Unlike supa dupa fan Bill who chased them down the Lancs to Man City.

 

[catcherintherye]

This is true and I largely agree however we did immediately get 4th spot.

We crafted a great team on the back of it. I think it's fanciful to suggest we could have built a team around Rooney. In truth he was so far above the level of the rest of the team we weren't even getting enormous value from him. Had Rooney been born 20 (or even 10) years earlier he'd have probably been coming into a winning team. He was the right player at the wrong time though.

I think we do need to change how we view the sales though. We made a tonne of money and built a side that cemented us in the top half of the league for a decade. The biggest mistake for me,w as not selling him to Chelsea for 50 million at the start of the summer.

 

[MikeH72]

Not sure on that it’s taken Seamus almost two years to recover from the same injury to any sort of standard of form. I suppose we will soon find out, he’s either due a contract or he leaves.

It took Coleman 8 months to start playing first team football after he shattered his leg. He was brilliant when he came back last season anyway.

 

[Neiler]

It took Coleman 8 months to start playing first team football after he shattered his leg. He was brilliant when he came back last season anyway.

Not for me, Shays been playing with limits probably up to a month ago.

Can only go with what Silva has said on JimmyMc to be honest.

I know he wasn’t considered fit enough to play for Ireland and not ready for 90 mins for Everton.

 

[MikeH72]

Not for me, he’s been playing with limits probably up to a month ago.

Can only go with what Silva has said on JimmyMc to be honest.

I know he wasn’t considered fit enough to play for Ireland and not ready for 90 mins for Everton.

Yes he was, he was man of the match candidate in his first game back against Leicester. It’s only this season his awful form has started.

If McCarthy isn’t fit enough to even come on as a sub at this point then it’s a separate injury or recurrence of something that’s happened in training.

 

[davek]

I can't argue with any of that mate.

That was probably the bit I omitted from the OP that I meant to put in. The big risk for us, is if it goes wrong we get relegated. If we have as big a drop as Monaco had this season, we are not just down but dead and buried. In terms of wage spend and general ranking your Fulhams/Huddersfields finish probably just below half way in Germany and probably slightly top half in France. That is the enormous risk we run with the strategy and there's no way of saying it other than it would be a risk. It's why I think we will not be a aggressive in the approach as those sorts of sides, but we will try to emulate it in a more cautious way.

As for the 2nd part I do hear this a lot. How can a side, who's commercial revenues are circa 20% that of 5 teams above them go forward on a strategy of keeping world class players for any length of time? I can't see that, or see how it would be done.

We undoubtedly wasted the Lukaku money, it was an enormous opportunity. I blame Koeman as much as Walsh for that. I'm not sure it meant it was the wrong strategy though.

That being said, we have to be honest enough to say, Martinez in his final season through to Koeman's first made a big mistake not utilising those 4 special players in a more productive way. Imagine if we would have kept those 4, maybe not added as much but ensured we kept them, where we would be?

Before Koeman we had a core of good young players, but the culture of the club was still "Moyesian". A large group of older players - small time cowards who couldn't grasp the nettle and play with belief in themselves - who ruled the roost. The shame was that a man so out of his depth like Koeman took over and got hold of the windfall from the sale of those young stars. It's the biggest error made by Everton in the last few decades.

 

[Groucho]

I know he wasn’t considered fit enough to play for Ireland and not ready for 90 mins for Everton.

Christ, if Martin O’Neill thinks he’s not fit then he must be fubar’d.

You could be paraplegic and he’d still play someone.

 

[Neiler]

Yes he was, he was man of the match candidate in his first game back against Leicester. It’s only this season his awful form has started.

If McCarthy isn’t fit enough to even come on as a sub at this point then it’s a separate injury or recurrence of something that’s happened in training.

Opinions are free mate your entitled to yours.

My own would be it’s only in the last month Shay gotten close to the form he had pre injury.

I don’t know really I don’t train the dude, I’m just taking note of the people who do say.

 

[Neiler]

Christ, if Martin O’Neill thinks he’s not fit then he must be fubar’d.

You could be paraplegic and he’d still play someone.

He lost out to Glen Whealan, says it all in regard to his fitness for me.

 

[catcherintherye]

Before Koeman we had a core of good young players, but the culture of the club was still "Moyesian". A large group of older players - small time cowards who couldn't grasp the nettle and play with belief in themselves - who ruled the roost. The shame was that a man so out of his depth like Koeman took over and got hold of the windfall from the sale of those young stars. It's the biggest error made by Everton in the last few decades.

It's hard to argue against that. There's some irony that at times of big spending splurges we have tended not only to struggle in the season in question but also more broadly in the following years. If you think Harvey in 87/8, Smith in 1998/9 and then Koeman.

Lets put it this way, had we have appointed Silva and Brands that summer I think we'd be in a lot stronger place. I think the squad would have been built around Stones, Lukaku, Barkley and Deulofeu with incremental improvements as opposed to wholesale change.

 

[blueblue]

They are in a different position to us though. As top teams in their respective leagues they have the allure to attract very good youngsters and snap up quality players at reasonable prices because they are invariably in the CL.

We have nothing like that to offer, so creating and breaking up teams is not a sensible model.


Basically we sold a world class player (rather than build around him) and used the money to bake in mediocrity to the club with the purchase of a certain level of player who could perform functionally as a unit.

I am not sure that is completely correct Dave.

We have given so many young players the opportunity to get first team Premiership football that players and agents will see us a club that could at the very least be a good stepping stone for a young player in his career path.
Young players can look at Richarlison, DCL, Davies, Kenny and even possibly Holgate and Lookman see they are being allowed the experience and time to develop as players.
I think we will be attractive to young players who like to see a clear path for them in their career development.
I think we can get them to come alright it is then up to Brands/Silva to develop them as players and create the team that can satisfy their ambitions.

 

[davek]

It's hard to argue against that. There's some irony that at times of big spending splurges we have tended not only to struggle in the season in question but also more broadly in the following years. If you think Harvey in 87/8, Smith in 1998/9 and then Koeman.

Lets put it this way, had we have appointed Silva and Brands that summer I think we'd be in a lot stronger place. I think the squad would have been built around Stones, Lukaku, Barkley and Deulofeu with incremental improvements as opposed to wholesale change.

Moshiri closed the stable door after the horse had bolted.

 

[davek]

I am not sure that is completely correct Dave.

We have given so many young players the opportunity to get first team Premiership football that players and agents will see us a club that could at the very least be a good stepping stone for a young player in his career path.
Young players can look at Richarlison, DCL, Davies, Kenny and even possibly Holgate and Lookman see they are being allowed the experience and time to develop as players.
I think we will be attractive to young players who like to see a clear path for them in their career development.
I think we can get them to come alright it is then up to Brands/Silva to develop them as players and create the team that can satisfy their ambitions.

Plenty of other PL teams can offer that though. It's not a USP of Everton.

 

[catcherintherye]

Plenty of other PL teams can offer that though. It's not a USP of Everton.

They don't though do they? In truth we really either.

 

[GwladysPhil]

It's hard to argue against that. There's some irony that at times of big spending splurges we have tended not only to struggle in the season in question but also more broadly in the following years. If you think Harvey in 87/8, Smith in 1998/9 and then Koeman.

Lets put it this way, had we have appointed Silva and Brands that summer I think we'd be in a lot stronger place. I think the squad would have been built around Stones, Lukaku, Barkley and Deulofeu with incremental improvements as opposed to wholesale change.

Yep, Koeman and Walsh are entirely responsible for setting us back.

Koeman was inept and really couldn't be bothered / just wanted the pay day. Took serious golf holidays.

Wlash is a scout nothing more, giving him the budget and director role was always going to be disastrous.