Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[oldblue]

Apologies, I actually misread your post so I thought you were making a different point.

It can obviously still be a major indicator though. Your point was about projections, and if your league position is progressively getting worse, and you're making a projection on where you'll be in the future, the projection will show it continuing to get worse. I'm not saying it will, but the idea that it's just as likely we'll get better is clearly flawed. It's based only on a feeling, or blind faith, not on the solid fact that both our league position and our performances have been getting worse over the last few months.

I don't really agree that our performances have been better this season than last. Yes there have been more games when we've looked good going forward, but football is about the balance between attack and defence. Last season we were too slow and negative, earlier this season we were too gung ho and open. It was an improvement as a viewing spectacle, but it didn't make us any better in a football sense. Recent performances have been as bad as anything served up last year.

Recent performances have been as bad and are worrying but they definitely aren't typical. Gung ho with defensive mistakes does typify it better but even that was proving to be better than most of what happened last year results wise. Then a handful of games we looked tighter and were still scoring and we've looked to still be tighter but with little confidence since West Ham.
None of it is giving me any sense of where we'd finish if there was no change in management or improvement in the squad. But this season nearly all the fine margins have gone against us and we've very rarely been outclassed. This is reflected in our goal difference. All that indicates to me we'd improve positionally. Point is whether that's good enough surely. And whether he can or will make the adjustments that take us a step further. And even then, which is the one big thing hanging over him in my opinion, is if we had the right squad playing fluently and solidly, could we still get a better man manager.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Just been told that Roberto offered to resign after Saturdays game. Offer was refused by Moshiri.

That's all I know.

@Zatara

 

[Zatara]

@Zatara

Cheers.

 

[Eric Djemba-Djemba]

We're 14th, not 20th. What's the fuss about?

 

[eternal_defiance]

we must make the change as soon as possible. he's blatantly finished long-term and we need to get Mourinho in.

 

[PhilM]

Fans in wanting to play worst team shocker. They'd have wanted us even before the game on Saturday

If I was a Manure, West Ham or Watford fan I'd be more than happy to face us because simply we're a team in disarray and fans who are upset.

Still, somehow pretty much all the bookmakers still think we're the clear favourites to win the competition based on their odds.

http://www.oddschecker.com/football/english/fa-cup/winner

 

[catcherintherye]

Yeah I agree to be honest. I've no problem with the poll but it's a lot less important than what individuals actually think. Neither in or out has reflected my views since he's been here. But you'll be lumped into one side or other and that's the danger for me.
Nothing the site can do about it. As usual it's up to individuals to either see that everything has context and polls don't actually make any argument right, or use it as a way to think they don't have to justify an opinion.
Everyone I speak to may something along the lines of 'he has to go' or 'wait and see'. When you discuss it more they all have pretty similar concerns and different solutions. But all have positives and negatives.

Well yes that is a fair summary. Polls being misused are different from polls being bad or having no value though. It's up to people to try and use them constructively. In the debate on Martinez which is quite polarised it is difficult and does render them less valuable as frankly people lose their objectivity and score points.

I find them interesting. Whatever the fault is, it is interesting to me that now more people want him out than last season. I think what we can generalise from that, is for a large portion of fans something has changed this season and I imagine in 2016. The conclusion I would draw, is two consecutive poor league performances will not be accepted by our fan base.

 

[oldblue]

Before Christmas I would have agreed with you . Performances were much better then results. The palace game was some of the best football I had seen in a long time but we didn't win. I could accept that. But the last 3.months have not been up.to standard at all. Chelsea in the cup we played well as we were well up for it. But other than that I think we have been mediocre at best.
Up to the end of January I was firmly in keep martinez camp. Now I am afraid we are left with no option but to replace him .
When the senior players are speaking out it seems they have lost faith in him. I also think that whoever comes in needs to ship our some of our so called great players whose attitude aren't why they should be.
But martinez must also go. He is a likeable bloke who tries to play nice football, has a positive impact with young players but he doesnt gwt results he should

Can't argue with most of that except to say I still believe there's work to be done on this squad and if he can continue to bring in players who will grow into the style of football we've seen at times then I'd stick with him while there is still squad building going on.
I definitely agree that a few people have to go in order to build. Whatever criticism there is of the manager it worries me that certain players are being excused because the style may not be ideal. It's really not healthy to start thinking they'll be fine with a change. They owe the fans not the manager

 

[jtl60]

I think his style of football goes against anything a defensive coach would want to implement. It's like when people say a Moyes/Martinez team would be perfect - it wouldn't because they're play styles clash with each other. We score so many goals under Martinez because we don't concentrate on defence, and we defended so well under Moyes because we lacked attack.

Surely you can undertake some defensive tactics without it affecting your general attacking style. If West Ham beat Man U in midweek for example, I cant see us having any plan what so ever for defending long balls into Andy Caroll. You know and I know that Caroll will target Baines as he's the smallest defender, I cant see Bobby having any sort of plan to deal with it. That doesn't have to go against his belief in playing pretty football does it?

 

[willo30]

Recent performances have been as bad and are worrying but they definitely aren't typical. Gung ho with defensive mistakes does typify it better but even that was proving to be better than most of what happened last year results wise. Then a handful of games we looked tighter and were still scoring and we've looked to still be tighter but with little confidence since West Ham.
None of it is giving me any sense of where we'd finish if there was no change in management or improvement in the squad. But this season nearly all the fine margins have gone against us and we've very rarely been outclassed. This is reflected in our goal difference. All that indicates to me we'd improve positionally. Point is whether that's good enough surely. And whether he can or will make the adjustments that take us a step further. And even then, which is the one big thing hanging over him in my opinion, is if we had the right squad playing fluently and solidly, could we still get a better man manager.

But the goal difference has come the same way as our wins which is mainly against the dross of the league. 17-3 against the bottom 3. Goal difference is nothing to write home about.
Now if you'd have said goals scored I would have agreed with you even though the bottom 3 accounted for 13 goals at home.

 

[catcherintherye]

Class man, too bad he can't string a side for [Poor language removed].

I never understand some of the nastiness to Martinez. He is a nice man, a kind, caring man. In many ways that is part of his difficulty, he is too nice and I think some of the players he walked all over him over the last two seasons. Lukaku has hung him out to dry with his comments and subsequent performances. Mirallas likewise. Howard hasn't made things any easier. Stones hasn't shown the responsibility he should. In Lukaku's case the behaviour is particularly galling as Martinez has done a lot for his career. The problem is though they have done it, because they've been allowed to do it.

Martinez has always said the right things about the fans. I appreciate that but it can't be that alone. If he is to stay I think he will need to have a major transformation in the summer, akin to what Moyes did in 2004.

 

[JAYTALITY]

The club has already spoken to at least four potential replacements. It's just a matter of time now.

Err what, I've had a media blackout till now. And this is the first bit of Everton information I have come across. Am I dreaming.

 

[Bungle]

Err what, I've had a media blackout till now. And this is the first bit of Everton information I have come across. Am I dreaming.

Yes, yes your are, in this dream you'll also feel like you're being penetrated from behind, just go with it.

 

[Ashtonian]

Surely you can undertake some defensive tactics without it affecting your general attacking style. If West Ham beat Man U in midweek for example, I cant see us having any plan what so ever for defending long balls into Andy Caroll. You know and I know that Caroll will target Baines as he's the smallest defender, I cant see Bobby having any sort of plan to deal with it. That doesn't have to go against his belief in playing pretty football does it?

Considering West ham played the second half to exploit a weakness in crosses into the box, and Martinez responded by playing three at the back followed by all out attack in the last 15 minutes, before denying he had a weakness there is a good measure to how he will approach them.

i mean he denied the weakness despite west ham player (who scored) saying it, and the fact west ham actually did exploit the weakness, as if by magic.....

 

[orly]

But the goal difference has come the same way as our wins which is mainly against the dross of the league. 17-3 against the bottom 3. Goal difference is nothing to write home about.
Now if you'd have said goals scored I would have agreed with you even though the bottom 3 accounted for 13 goals at home.

We do keep telling him this, like.