Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

Martinez in or out?

  • In

  • Out

  • Getting splinters eating cheese on toast on the fence

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I'm taking the offer of resignation story with a pinch, for 3 reasons;

1. The man has a huge ego and will still think he's on the cusp of turning it around.
2. Who in their right mind would offer their ticket when sat on a long term multi £M contract, and not get the payoff that came with the sack?
3. If it was offered, they'd have bitten his hand off given that I do believe the Esks comment that they've been actively speaking to potential replacements, and his offer to leave would have saved them £M's
 
oldblue said:
The league position is an indication of our league position. How can it be an indication on it's own of whether it'll improve or not?
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Not sure I understand your point

Its a rankings table based on your performances over the course of a season

There is no better Barometer to measure against then that of your peers on a week to week. month to month or season to season basis you can see if there has been improvement or not.
 
I can see it now, martinez loses next two games. He is subsequently sacked as results have seen us touching distance off 17th in the league.

Joe royle steps up as interm manager until the end of the season. Brings in Gibson and drops Stones, gets the team fighting again, then 75 minutes gone, 1-1, big dunc stands up, 4th official lifts a board up and after a quiet word with him, on comes.....oumar Niasse. He actually goes into a position and 88th minute, scramble in box and Naisse slams it home, runs over to the Everton fans and celebrates.

Then west ham turn up at wembley, with the team with a look of determination on their faces.


(either that or Royle with dunc as a sub lol )
 
FisherEFC said:
Can't see Martinez offering to resign blokes too stubborn/knows this is the best job he'll get. Won't leave til after the cup he'll be banking on winning that and staying on or having another pot on his CV. No manager will pack up when their team is in with a sniff of lifting a trophy.
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I agree, seems out of character. He believes he's building something and just needs some luck apparently. Why would he offer to resign unless he was chatting utter nonsence and..................oh.

Never mind.
 

Ashtonian said:
It is just blind ignorance to dismiss it mate.

I notice you post a lot of what ifs though. Like when fans called for kendall to be sacked and when we sold rooney. would argue that is again hanging onto blind faith rather than acknowledging the facts put in front of us fans. I have said it many times, what if Martinez just isn't cut out as a manager? What if despite all the what if this clicks or what if we sign more players or whatever else i read from pro martinez fans, it is just dismissing the obvious situation we find ourselves in.

I mean, 5 years ago, finishing 7th despite not spending any money was seemed as an under achievement as 'we had a bad start'. Now 14th and looking lost is being defended to the hilt.
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So if people put forward possible positives it's 'blind ignorance'. Put forward negative possibilities it's fact.
Every part of the post I originally questioned was 'what if'.
I just think if we're making a decision about the club's future then it's a good idea to look a it with balance.
If I suggested we are bound to win the cup because he's won it before with a worse team, would you take me seriously.
Would you have said Moyes or Van Gaal were more suitable for Man U based on what's achieved at very different clubs in very different circumstances. Would you have felt Raineiri would performe at Leicester based on Chelsea
 
Toffeeslam said:
Not sure I understand your point

Its a rankings table based on your performances over the course of a season

There is no better Barometer to measure against then that of your peers on a week to week. month to month or season to season basis you can see if there has been improvement or not.
Click to expand...
The original point was made in answer to someone saying we were bound to get worse.
 
oldblue said:
The league position is an indication of our league position. How can it be an indication on it's own of whether it'll improve or not?
Click to expand...
Apologies, I actually misread your post so I thought you were making a different point.

It can obviously still be a major indicator though. Your point was about projections, and if your league position is progressively getting worse, and you're making a projection on where you'll be in the future, the projection will show it continuing to get worse. I'm not saying it will, but the idea that it's just as likely we'll get better is clearly flawed. It's based only on a feeling, or blind faith, not on the solid fact that both our league position and our performances have been getting worse over the last few months.

I don't really agree that our performances have been better this season than last. Yes there have been more games when we've looked good going forward, but football is about the balance between attack and defence. Last season we were too slow and negative, earlier this season we were too gung ho and open. It was an improvement as a viewing spectacle, but it didn't make us any better in a football sense. Recent performances have been as bad as anything served up last year.
 

oldblue said:
If I suggested we are bound to win the cup because he's won it before with a worse team, would you take me seriously.
Would you have said Moyes or Van Gaal were more suitable for Man U based on what's achieved at very different clubs in very different circumstances. Would you have felt Raineiri would performe at Leicester based on Chelsea
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Answer to all of that is yes mate. I actually half expect us to win the cup, hence i haven't said we won't win it. If he won it with wigan he can win it with us, so not removing that possiblity.

Moyes was always going to be a risk and ultimate failure, personally i think its because he was here too long, so much so he set himself in a mind frame. Van Gaal almost got the United job in 2002 so that was ineviteble, the fact he is struggling in england does not remove his previous achievements, nor make you think negatively in hindsight before he arrived. Ranieri was always going to do a half decent job at Leisecter though, better than pearson anyway. Nobody expected them to be winning the league, but if they were 10th right now i would call that a respectful postion under him.

Thing is, a lot of my posts on Martinez actually talk about facts, not what ifs. So despite the contrary, i base my opinion on the manager from what the team actually do. I base it on his history, and how that went. I can only base it on the facts, which is the 14th in the league and poor form for 2 years. the only thing i can compare it to is Wigan, who went through a very similar drop in performance. One major difference between us and wigan is the quality of players here, take Ross and Rom out the team and swap them for kone and Cleverley (more wigan like). Do you think we wouldn't be in a relegation fight? Considering i am swapping them for two of his players, who he signed, it isnt bending the truth that they would be considered first team there. Hell take rom away alone and you have a massive hole in the team that we have a 5 minute player and aroune kone to fill. So it isnt unrealistic to suggest it at all.

but then again that is taking away from the only thing i can go on, the team and performances. the fact that we played both kone and Eto'o out wide under this manager is proof that our attacking fortunes rest on the brilliance of lukaku, not in spite of it. Lukaku is leaving, and if Martinez is still here then the only thing i have to go on is that in two years, he has shown he has zero ability to replace lukaku in the team, even for 15 minutes.
 
Foot Long Hot Dog said:
I'm taking the offer of resignation story with a pinch, for 3 reasons;

1. The man has a huge ego and will still think he's on the cusp of turning it around.
2. Who in their right mind would offer their ticket when sat on a long term multi £M contract, and not get the payoff that came with the sack?
3. If it was offered, they'd have bitten his hand off given that I do believe the Esks comment that they've been actively speaking to potential replacements, and his offer to leave would have saved them £M's
Click to expand...

He's a man of principle, so I can believe it.
 
oldblue said:
Well I think on the whole performances this season have been better. And if you go back a couple of months the argument was that the squad was improving performances were better but results weren't reflecting it.
Since the West Ham game confidence on the pitch has dropped. We've still only been outplayed once. You see it as much more likely we'll drop further but the only stat I've read that seems to have some foundation doesn't back that up. Doesn't prove you're wrong but it's what I'm going with
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Before Christmas I would have agreed with you . Performances were much better then results. The palace game was some of the best football I had seen in a long time but we didn't win. I could accept that. But the last 3.months have not been up.to standard at all. Chelsea in the cup we played well as we were well up for it. But other than that I think we have been mediocre at best.
Up to the end of January I was firmly in keep martinez camp. Now I am afraid we are left with no option but to replace him .
When the senior players are speaking out it seems they have lost faith in him. I also think that whoever comes in needs to ship our some of our so called great players whose attitude aren't why they should be.
But martinez must also go. He is a likeable bloke who tries to play nice football, has a positive impact with young players but he doesnt gwt results he should
 

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