Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[chazzle_dazzle]

I'm not saying any different mate.

I like Roberto as a man. Met him twice and he was always willing to entertain discussion regarding the club.

He gets our club, but it looks like he's just not capable of turning it around.

Really disappointing, I had dreams of us doing amazing things with such a young dynamic squad and a young attack-minded manager.

It just hasn't happened.

I just feel he is more suited the the Director of Football position. Set out a plan of how the club wants to play, and be perceived he is great at that, transfers he has probably had more success then failures with us. He is a really likeable man, but he has massive holes in his skill set which he fails to remedy.

He has had over 10 years in management, and the same tags have followed him but haven't been fixed. I am starting to believe his man management is another quite big failing, think the players wouldn't run through a paper bag for him, let alone a brick wall.

 

[kithnou]

Ok i'll answer in parts to this to make it clearer to read.

1. Difference between everton and wigan? Good attacking play? Poor defence? Not winning games? Dropping down the league year on year? Sounds pretty similar to me considering it is the same manager and same tactics.

2. As for getting shot? We are 15th in the league mate in April. Not too long ago it was what a manager from our chairman. If they follow the same belief that you have in the manager (or few others on here) then say he wins the cup, but we find ourselves 15th next season at the same point, except the bottom 3 aren't as bad as they are this year and can actually catch us? There is plenty of credible ground, cup or not, that would suggest that martinez may not get sacked at all.

3. True, we haven't sold star players before, but none of them have scored 25 goals in a season before, which is a huge commodity in football to sign. Plus he has announced in march he wants to leave, so he will be gone. The club might be bigger than one player here and there mate, but those 25 goals this year....they are kinda a rare commodity to us to have, seeings though he is our best striker since 1993 for scoring in a season! So for all the record keepers out there, that is 23 years since we had a goal scorer anywhere near this level in the league, so yeah, not so easy to replace that is it?

4. and finally, it is just incredible that you constantly ignore the comparisons to Wigan even now. The records are so similar, with the same manager, the same tactics, the same league positions, the same average of wins, and the same dropping down the league happening. Look it up, they are similar, to think otherwise is just literally turning a blind eye to what is going on.

but giving martinez time here to send us further down is not a whole season mate. Newcastle going down this year are because of the first 4 month form, completely destroyed them. same as villa, only winning 2 games, kinda killed them off before they got going. All it would take is a half season of 'its the europa league's / euros / fans / anyone but the manager / bad luck' and we could really be struggling down there to pick results up, martinez or no martinez.

And for all the managers suggested, Emery/Koeman/Biesla/Mourhinio, none of them would come to us if we were struggling in the league yet again, take the blue tinted glasses off and you get a essentially a team looking like they are going down to every other fan in the country. 11th - 14th (could be 16th after this weeks games) and potentially keep losing and dropping points and norwich can catch us.

(oh and conveniently forgetting palace havent won a game this year until the weekend, double it and they move above us n the league, 1 promoted team above us, one level on points, west brom and swansea who were in relegation battles not long ago above us, how many more warning signs do fans need that this just isnt good enough? )

Good post mate

 

[catcherintherye]

I'd totally agree polls are valid but you've provided the context yourself. 'People aren't best pleased'. Nobody could argue with that. But within that are a mass of varied opinions that I think become heavily influenced by whether they seem representative. Which shouldn't be the case.
Even if it is representative it provides a block view that means people on the fringes of it take to be theirs.
My feeling is that most peoples views on this are qualified but if you read this thread now it's a lot less considered than you'd see elsewhere on the site. Any context given to anything is turned on its head really quickly.
Not sure what can be done about it because I think a poll is fair enough but I think it's not really going to mean anything and in this circumstance does effect the balance. There's still a huge chunk of people apparently saying they want to stick with him but I'm sure if you added the posts up that wouldn't be reflected. That could mean the polls wrong or it could mean that this is no longer a safe haven for those views.

This is the problem with polls themselves though, they reduce quite complex arguments to statistics. I voted in in the poll, if another came up now I don't know how I would vote. I don't think an "in" or "out" really covered my viewpoint.

However where I have some sympathy with this view I would say that there greater complexity is available from people's posts. I am not sure having a poll has the same causal effect on the mindset of the fans. In many ways I think it probably pacifies it, as otherwise each side would probably be trying to argue they are in a majority. Always impossible to tell and a poll doesn't give us an answer for this, but it certainly gives more clarity.

I appreciate that "people aren't bets pleased" but in all honesty people haven't been best pleased for 18 months. Does that mean we should not ever have any polls? Or what validity do polls have if only conducted when people are pleased? There is a sizeable section of fans who would like Martinez gone, for the most part I disagree with them, but I respect the fact there is a debate and also understand what a poll can offer to that as well as it's limitations.

 

[catcherintherye]

I'm talking specifically about the timing of the poll. Regardless, I apologise if i came across that I was questioning that the site wouldn't run polls on current issues.



Great post. My problem isn't with the poll or the decision to run it. My point is, it's not the right time.

Thanks mate, you raised a lot of good points too. I suppose the question then would be what is the "right time"? I would say if fans post a poll and they participate in it to me it shows it is the right time.

 

[MikeH72]

Monday morning 11th April 2016 and our manager is still Roberto Martinez

 

[Thomasc]

The club has already spoken to at least four potential replacements. It's just a matter of time now.

So, this is how to cheer me up on a Monday morning

 

[kithnou]

Monday morning 11th April 2016 and our manager is still Roberto Martinez

View attachment 20925

Leave the family pics for the Ale House please mate

 

[Khalekan]

Still would love it if he succeeded because he is a decent bloke. It's just not happened and our form and style have clearly declined ever since stoke at home. I think he should go but take no pleasure in how it's finishing. Unfortunately we have had 4 massive screaming-at-the-walls c apitulations this season (Bournemouth, stoke, Chelsea and west ham) and all of those with the possible exception of Chelsea can be laid at the feet of the manager. Each time we have collapsed it has hugely affected confidence especially in our youth. West ham was the final straw of final straws. I like Bob but my loyalty is to Everton not Martinez

Exactly this.

And you can add Norwich to that list of capitulations.

Playing badly and failing to win is one thing.

Players van identify where they went wrong and can act to correct in the next game.

But failing to win when you have dominated a game, often being two goals up, just drains their confidence and saps at morale.

The Hammers substitution seems to have affected the players and is proving the final straw.

They must have been as perplexed as I was to see Niasse coming on in place of Lennon.

It wS such a shocking decision from the manager.

And the team has looked shattered ever since.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

It's true the poll has been running for months. And like yourself, I've read every post. It was at one stage taken down.



Then you ask me to pipe down. I'll ignore that. I think you're fundamentally failing to see what I'm trying to suggest to you. I'm not backtracking, I'm applauding you for the work you do. I understand your rationale for running the polls. I disagree on the timing.

You say you'd rather not have this poll? So why run it? Does it help, why not just wait to the end of the season? You can't claim it's not an editorial when you're being referenced, albeit indirectly, in national media. Rightly or wrongly that's what is being reported.

Any poll is a reflection of current opinion.

Current opinion on here is that 72% of Blues want Martinez gone. All the poll has done is add a statistic to the obvious feeling amongst Blues.

Arguing that it's the wrong time to be gauging opinion on the subject is nonsense, as taken to it's ultimate you'd be suggesting that any Blue venting his spleen about the manager being sacked, should be censored as the time isn't right.

I suspect your issue is about the poll result not it's mere existence.

 

[Hong Kong Phooey]

The club has already spoken to at least four potential replacements. It's just a matter of time now.

I love you! That has given me real hope at least. Thank you

 

[Number_25]

Class man, too bad he can't string a side for [Poor language removed].

 

[D410]

I don't think you have a warped, view at all. In fact, I think what you and the moderators here accomplish is something that has been lacking for a long time. Not only that, I'm sure I'm not alone when I state that without the combined effort and excellence that is provided by this site Evertonians would be poorer for it.

Saying that, you're not immune from criticism. Running a poll before a semi final, is a decision, fan based or not, that ultimately resides with you. There's nothing contradictory in assuming that whatever runs on this site isn't under your parameters, to decide fair play or not. In my opinion it's a bad call. I just don't see how it helps the situation. However if you want to argue that, primarily it's irrelevant and that if it reflects Evertonians opinions, fine I would agree.

What I do find odd is that entertaining the idea that maybe waiting to hold a poll after an event is unusual.

The entire national and international media are running damaging articles everyday inclusive of the input from the players, ex-players, fans and social media. Why are,nt you addressing that as it,s a far bigger problem than a poll on a forum?

 

[MikeH72]

Exactly this.

And you can add Norwich to that list of capitulations.

Playing badly and failing to win is one thing.

Players van identify where they went wrong and can act to correct in the next game.

But failing to win when you have dominated a game, often being two goals up, just drains their confidence and saps at morale.

The Hammers substitution seems to have affected the players and is proving the final straw.

They must have been as perplexed as I was to see Niasse coming on in place of Lennon.

It wS such a shocking decision from the manager.

And the team has looked shattered ever since.

That really was the moment that drove it home to me, that he hasn't got a clue what he's doing

 

[kithnou]

Exactly this.

And you can add Norwich to that list of capitulations.

Playing badly and failing to win is one thing.

Players van identify where they went wrong and can act to correct in the next game.

But failing to win when you have dominated a game, often being two goals up, just drains their confidence and saps at morale.

The Hammers substitution seems to have affected the players and is proving the final straw.

They must have been as perplexed as I was to see Niasse coming on in place of Lennon.

It wS such a shocking decision from the manager.

And the team has looked shattered ever since.

The City away leg substitutions did it for me mate. My final straw.

 

[COYBL25]

Ok i'll answer in parts to this to make it clearer to read.

1. Difference between everton and wigan? Good attacking play? Poor defence? Not winning games? Dropping down the league year on year? Sounds pretty similar to me considering it is the same manager and same tactics.

2. As for getting shot? We are 15th in the league mate in April. Not too long ago it was what a manager from our chairman. If they follow the same belief that you have in the manager (or few others on here) then say he wins the cup, but we find ourselves 15th next season at the same point, except the bottom 3 aren't as bad as they are this year and can actually catch us? There is plenty of credible ground, cup or not, that would suggest that martinez may not get sacked at all.

3. True, we haven't sold star players before, but none of them have scored 25 goals in a season before, which is a huge commodity in football to sign. Plus he has announced in march he wants to leave, so he will be gone. The club might be bigger than one player here and there mate, but those 25 goals this year....they are kinda a rare commodity to us to have, seeings though he is our best striker since 1993 for scoring in a season! So for all the record keepers out there, that is 23 years since we had a goal scorer anywhere near this level in the league, so yeah, not so easy to replace that is it?

4. and finally, it is just incredible that you constantly ignore the comparisons to Wigan even now. The records are so similar, with the same manager, the same tactics, the same league positions, the same average of wins, and the same dropping down the league happening. Look it up, they are similar, to think otherwise is just literally turning a blind eye to what is going on.

but giving martinez time here to send us further down is not a whole season mate. Newcastle going down this year are because of the first 4 month form, completely destroyed them. same as villa, only winning 2 games, kinda killed them off before they got going. All it would take is a half season of 'its the europa league's / euros / fans / anyone but the manager / bad luck' and we could really be struggling down there to pick results up, martinez or no martinez.

And for all the managers suggested, Emery/Koeman/Biesla/Mourhinio, none of them would come to us if we were struggling in the league yet again, take the blue tinted glasses off and you get a essentially a team looking like they are going down to every other fan in the country. 11th - 14th (could be 16th after this weeks games) and potentially keep losing and dropping points and norwich can catch us.

(oh and conveniently forgetting palace havent won a game this year until the weekend, double it and they move above us n the league, 1 promoted team above us, one level on points, west brom and swansea who were in relegation battles not long ago above us, how many more warning signs do fans need that this just isnt good enough? )

You've gone from a peddler of dangerous nicotine based products, with suspect right wing leanings, to one of the voices of the forum. Your absolution is complete, sterling work.