The End of Season Martinez Poll

[blue_aussie05]

If you read my post it says winning silverware every season, not ever winning silverware

Ok mate, no worries.

There must be very few teams that can say they expect to win trophies every season, and fewer that actually do. However, looking on the bright side, why can't we do that? That's how Chelsea started, and look at them now.

The FA Cup in 97, League Cup in 98, Cup Winners Cup in 98, then FA Cup in 2000. It took them another 5 years to win the league, and that's only because of a shed load of Abramovich money!

Why can't we string a few cup wins together? Just because we haven't won anything for 20 years, and have only reached one final in that time, would suggest it's highly unlikely but doesn't necessarily mean it's impossible. Does it?

 

[Toffeelover]

If by Christmas or the end of the season, progress is slow or non-existent, then he'll have been in the job 2.5 to 3 years.

At that point, I think you have to look around to see if there's a better option available at a reasonable price. If there's not, and I thought he was doing OK in an average kind of way, I'd keep him on, but to really improve, sometimes you have to take the risk of getting a decision wrong, so my gut reaction would be to take a risk and try someone else.

We've accepted mediocrity for too long. If I didn't fulfil my part of the bargain on a contract on a regular basis, then said contract would be terminated. Football managers are no different, and I don't believe that the full contract value to the endof 2028/19 would have to be paid out if it was terminated. Normally some compromise is reached.

For the record, I think he'll do better next season and have us in or around Europa league spots. But if he doesn't, and we have another season like this one, then I'd want the board to look very hard for a replacement. Essentially, a big part of the board's job is making the most of the finances we have, and the manager is pretty much the biggest part of that.

Nice post Woolly, but ignoring our polls, I believe our board would not show RM the exit next season if it was a replica of this.

 

[evertony]

For what it's worth, I think the folk who voted to let him see his contract out ( till the end of 2018/19 ) , regardless of what happens over the next few seasons are either WUMs, daft or both.

I'm neither a WUM or daft. I just think he's the man for the job, and my personal belief is that he has a contract to work to....we gave him 5 years presumably that it would take 5 years to get this Club moving forward....if not why else would we have given him or anyone else more than 2 years.
If we have a poor season in 2015/16 he won't need to be dismissed as he'll walk.....Martinez is a genuine football man and he'll not allow himself to take this Club under during his watch.
He'll have us up and running again no worries.

 

[The Esk]

@davek

I've not finished nor had more time to put all my thoughts down but here's a taste of why I would be prepared to see Martinez leave now, subject to a suitable replacement being already lined up to replace him.

I don't think it will happen, as I'm sure the Board will give him at least until Christmas, subject to results. Equally, I do not believe we could attract a suitable replacement given the financial limitations that individual would have to work under.

Nevertheless, please consider whether we have seen an improvement or deterioration in the last two years in the following, whether currently each is at an acceptable level and critically what the current trend for each attribute (where applicable) is?

Squad
Preseason preparation
Manager's contribution to individual player development
Fitness
Attitude
Number of individual errors
Selection
Team tactics and team shape
Team presence and cohesion
Leadership
Substitutions
Ability to change the course of the game


Clearly, the squad has improved, but I'd be interested to see your views on the rest. I'll go into each in more detail when time permits but just wanted to get the conversation rolling.

 

[Lowste]

Ok mate, no worries.

There must be very few teams that can say they expect to win trophies every season, and fewer that actually do. However, looking on the bright side, why can't we do that? That's how Chelsea started, and look at them now.

The FA Cup in 97, League Cup in 98, Cup Winners Cup in 98, then FA Cup in 2000. It took them another 5 years to win the league, and that's only because of a shed load of Abramovich money!

Why can't we string a few cup wins together? Just because we haven't won anything for 20 years, and have only reached one final in that time, would suggest it's highly unlikely but doesn't necessarily mean it's impossible. Does it?

Apologies if I sounded abrupt
My whole point and will always be my point is that for a club in our financial position we need to do two things
1. We need to build a squad that can challenge for silverware, I use the word build as we can't just buy 4 or 5 top names every season
2. We need to give our manager time to build this squad, it is not an overnight thing and we should understand that.

I want to challenge and I want to win.......but my final point is I don't expect silverware as a given

 

[Prevenger17]

Quick everyone, The Esk vs. Davek is about to kick off.

 

[The Equaliser]

Only 31% behind Martinez really. Mmmm..

 

[Toffeelover]

@davek

I've not finished nor had more time to put all my thoughts down but here's a taste of why I would be prepared to see Martinez leave now, subject to a suitable replacement being already lined up to replace him.

I don't think it will happen, as I'm sure the Board will give him at least until Christmas, subject to results. Equally, I do not believe we could attract a suitable replacement given the financial limitations that individual would have to work under.

Nevertheless, please consider whether we have seen an improvement or deterioration in the last two years in the following, whether currently each is at an acceptable level and critically what the current trend for each attribute (where applicable) is?

Squad
Preseason preparation
Manager's contribution to individual player development
Fitness
Attitude
Number of individual errors
Team tactics and team shape
Team presence and cohesion
Leadership
Substitutions
Ability to change the course of the game


Clearly, the squad has improved, but I'd be interested to see your views on the rest. I'll go into each in more detail when time permits but just wanted to get the conversation rolling.

I can see quite a lot in there on which I could comment but have to say not all negative to be fair. However I await your expansion of those points.

 

[The Esk]

I can see quite a lot in there on which I could comment but have to say not all negative to be fair. However I await your expansion of those points.

Sure mate, there's a case for either side of the argument, it's not cut and dried, although on balance I'm now in the "time to go" camp subject to a suitable replacement (unlikely I know)

 

[blue_aussie05]

Finishing 9th/10th/11th rather than 6th/7th? Makes little difference to me, but it apparently gives many a feeling of great pride to get nearer the CL top table to sniff the food on offer there.

I don't agree with this at all. Although finishing 6th or 7th is still nowhere near breaking into the top 4, it's still pole apart from finishing 11th.

 

[Lowste]

Sure mate, there's a case for either side of the argument, it's not cut and dried, although on balance I'm now in the "time to go" camp subject to a suitable replacement (unlikely I know)

Two questions

1.Who to replace him
2. Who ever we get would you agree it would be a gamble

 

[davek]

I don't agree with this at all. Although finishing 6th or 7th is still nowhere near breaking into the top 4, it's still pole apart from finishing 11th.

With the best will in the world, 6th and 11th aren't poles apart!

 

[sageyefc]

I commented on this before to be fair. If you take chances playing it around the back with players who are not comfortable in doing so then you are going to get a lot of mistakes. Its Martinez' own fault as he's not playing to the strengths of the players at his disposal but instead trying to force people to play 'his way' even when it produces a record amount of mistakes.

I fear unless he changes Barry to someone far more comfortable and mobile on the ball - therefore able to come short and take the ball comfortably off the defenders - then we'll get a load more mistakes next season as well.

So your telling me its his fault howard lets a simple cross go through his hands? Or he tells distin to try and head a ball thats 2 yards of the ground?

 

[Woolly Blue]

I'm neither a WUM or daft. I just think he's the man for the job, and my personal belief is that he has a contract to work to....we gave him 5 years presumably that it would take 5 years to get this Club moving forward....if not why else would we have given him or anyone else more than 2 years.
If we have a poor season in 2015/16 he won't need to be dismissed as he'll walk.....Martinez is a genuine football man and he'll not allow himself to take this Club under during his watch.
He'll have us up and running again no worries.

We gave him a four year contract initially and effectively turned that into a six year contract at the end of his first season. If we have a poor a season as ( barring Europa ), we had this season, I doubt very much he'll walk, that's not in his nature.

My take on the five year contract is he exceeded all expectations in his first season and it was :-

• A show of faith
• A reward and
• For business reasons ( compensation if he gets a better offer )

I love Martinez, I think he's boss and will turn it round next season. But I love Everton more and am not willing to let sentiment towards Martinez getting in the way of that.

Barring some religious type faith in him, I don't understand why, for example, people would allow him another four seasons in charge come what may.

David's just on a wind-up, I can appreciate that, so he doesn't really mean it, but if we finished lower than, say, tenth next season without any signs of truly building for the future, then sticking with under-achievement seems daft to me.

 

[The Esk]

Two questions

1.Who to replace him
2. Who ever we get would you agree it would be a gamble

As I say mate, it's unlikely that a "suitable" candidate is available (i.e. not already at another club). Of those available, Quique Flores springs to mind.