I think Leon original point was the moan to situation we are in reality isnt as bad as some people make out, perspective and all.
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Nebbiolo
Valuation: £108 million
Fair comment, mate, especially about keeping it in perspective. But it's also allowed on this forum to have a little moan about things. Just like I wouldn't get pished at someone that is positive about things, I don't think people should be jumping down the throats of people that like to whinge. There is room for both on here, as long as either "camp" doesn't start with the personal abuse.
Can I watch?!
I agree, things arent all Blue skies- they probably never will be, but [Poor language removed] me we are playing well and climbing the table. Im really looking forward to the derbies- we are playing well, they arent, somethings gotta give. ***Cue 5-0 demolition in both games.
Certianly not mate, we are all guilty of moaning here from time to time even deludded Kenwright fans like me and we all have our personal bug bears about the club, thats the whole point. I like your point about the whole point of football is being the best and untill this happens there will always be criticism, how true.
I suppose what frustrates people is that sometimes an ambiance can be set over the whole forum, sometimes positive, sometimes negative depending on whom is posting and their mood. To be fair this can be unrealistic both positively and negatvily. The negativity drives me nuts as im sure much of my positivity drives other nuts, but i guess thats the fun of the fair.
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Nebbiolo
Valuation: £108 million
Indeed, this is what makes this forum so exciting, so many different views, so many different outlooks, so many people who KNOW they are right and cant believe others cant see it. Thats why we love it, if we all agreed it would be boring and if we all insulted each other it would be kipper.
I respect everybodys view on things, even when they are wrong, i will tell them that they are wrong, but just because we dont agree, it doesnt meant that anybody is wrong, there is no right and wrong, just the inbetween.
Bruce, welcome to the world of football forae.
I think you do us all down though, Bruce. There's a dialectic of sorts at play here: debate sometimes brings about a new concensus on issues that wasn't there before. Football forums along with pub discussions, radio phone-ins etc etc play a big role in the fashioning of opinion that can weigh on the considerations of policy makers in football. If it didn't the club wouldn't feel the need to employ shills to attempt to control the flow of debate.
Nemawashi eh? I do like this sort of input into threads. Like Robin the other day with his introduction of the Ship of Theseus concept. All good stuff to mull over.
Sure, the club don't exist in a bubble and some of what is said will no doubt permeate through to them, but if you think of things as a signal/noise then there is much said here that doesn't get through.
Of course its a two way thing and very few of us here have any kind of detailed knowledge about what people are doing at the club and can only guess.
When you have such imperfect information it seems that there is a natural disposition amongst some to think the worst, with of course the opposite amongst those who like to think the best.
Personally speaking I know that everything at the club can be improved upon, that's only natural, but my position to influence things is very limited so there seems little point me being miserable about things I can't control. I'm sure we all get emotional during the match but after that there are other things in life and I'm quite happy to take the enjoyment of following Everton, of which there is a lot right now, rather than wallowing in despair because we're not challenging for the title.
keverton
Player Valuation: £10m
But this is the point and why keep banging on about this is doing nothing as he has said he wants the buyer however nobody so it seems wants to buy us so keep slagging of bill saying sell up sell up sell up is pointless because he has stated he wants to sell up. Ps what was we like as a club both performance wise and financially before bill took over and lets look where we are now?
BadWool76
Player Valuation: £20m
You [Poor language removed] bent [Poor language removed] yer
Prince Harry on an EFC forum! May I have your autograph, my liege lord...
BadWool76
Player Valuation: £20m
Prince who ? Never heard of him mate
neonleon
Player Valuation: £35m
Bruce, welcome to the world of football forae.
I think you do us all down though, Bruce. There's a dialectic of sorts at play here: debate sometimes brings about a new concensus on issues that wasn't there before. Football forums along with pub discussions, radio phone-ins etc etc play a big role in the fashioning of opinion that can weigh on the considerations of policy makers in football. If it didn't the club wouldn't feel the need to employ shills to attempt to control the flow of debate.
Nemawashi eh? I do like this sort of input into threads. Like Robin the other day with his introduction of the Ship of Theseus concept. All good stuff to mull over.
So the next time Fellaini will be rested because you moaned to a few evertonians in a forum? Because you criticise our manager every time a minute detail goes awry? And it always seems to be negative criticism after the fact - anyone can look at a set of events and look like a genius afterwards. On the 12th September after the towers fell I thought that terrorism should be taken more seriously and sharp implements and knives should no longer be allowed on planes.
How many fans were saying on forums - "we should buy that Mikel Arteta lad who is polishing the Real Sociedad bench" or that tenacious midfielder who plays for Millwall? They were probably all clamouring for Jason Koumas at the time.
If there is a dialectic, by the time the blurred message gets to Moyes, it will be the same whine that seems to get louder from a certain set of fans the further we progress as a club under difficult, unique circumstances.
Moyes does to a degree listen to the fans - he has admitted his mistake in not withdrawing Fellaini - still he could have lasted until 55 minutes and withdrawn him and this wouldn't be such a bone of contention, equally he could have taken him off and it have ended up at 2-2 and the whingers would be saying, why did we take fellaini off when the 3 points weren't secured?
I think it is delusional in the extreme to expect this kind of nitpicking and relentless negativity to either inform Moyes' decision making or have any effect other than a malevolent one. On limited resources, Moyes has had to gamble at times, all over the pitch and off it.
some people are just waiting for us to fail so they can say I told you so, or to prove what great back seat managers they all are. It is an intellectual and egotistical vanity, but also a display of cowardice.
Sad that it is our fans.
what these people need to do, is take their coaching badges, get a job in the lower leagues and work their way up to managing in the premiership - which should be no problem for some people on this forum as they are so [Poor language removed] hot.
davek
Player Valuation: £150m
I think this basically comes down to a claim of direct and indirect influence. Obviously anything that's said on here (or, indeed, the cumulative weight of what's being said across other forums) doesn't impact on particular club policy. The club aren't going to run out and buy Moutinho because we all wanted it in the summer, or rip up a contract with Umbro because people want to pull their gargantuan frames into a Nike/Adidas top! What I would claim, though, is that widespread, populist sentiment on issues such as ownership and direction does make its way through and clubs can, and do, respond. Johnson's tenure in control became untenable when a tipping point was reached with the majority of fans during the HKIII period. What happened in Smith's first season in charge was merely the final act in that broken down relationship between support and regime and Kenwright filled the vacuum.
Let's face it, journalists and club PR people are obsessed by fan attitudes (and the internet chatter variety more especially). That creates - to use Neiler's word above - an ambience or mood that the club, if they have any sense as a 'company' operating in an 'entertainment industry', respond to. Call it tapping into the knowledge of the mass, if you want to be generous to them. They wouldn't like to let on that supporters dictate to them in such a way, but they do. Policy making isn't just about what elites in football clubs want to do, it's also what they know they can get away with and, like it or not, forums like this contribute in their own way to the balance of power.
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