Woolwich

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NewRadical said:
To other posters, I apologise for derailing this thread, but I needed to make my point, I actually felt I needed to clear my name.

I don't think I can stomach writing on GOT anymore. So I won't.
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You seem to have made your point perfectly reasonably. Life's too short for getting angry and upset with an internet forum!
 

NewRadical said:
Normally I don't let things written to me on the internet bother me. But to be honest this post has upset me.

You've taken a comment which was clearly about the government introducing draconian measures against the majority of good people and twisted it to imply I don't care about a British soldier murdered in his homeland, posted a video of extremists and then demanded answers form me. Who do you think you are?

I honestly wonder if you are trying to suggest I'm a muslim extremist or sympathiser.

I'll tell you the reason it has upset me. I had a friend who died in Afghanistan. I'm not going to use his name to make a stupid point but to those local he was from Kirkby and we went to Cherryfield school together. I knew him from when we were young enough to play with matchbox cars together, we lent each other videos and both went to the school fancy dress party as The Incredible Hulk, he won.

Had you read the original post properly, or earlier entries I had made were I said I was upset for the soldiers son then perhaps you wouldn't have felt the need to attack me. You were bang out of line.

To other posters, I apologise for derailing this thread, but I needed to make my point, I actually felt I needed to clear my name.

I don't think I can stomach writing on GOT anymore. So I won't.
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Dont leave mate regarding the comments in bold no way do I think that

I apologise that I took your comments out of context and didnt read your previous posts. This is an emotional time for all of us and I should have read the context before going off on one

Once again sincere apologies
 
Dell Boy said:
Woah hang on a minute.

You say there are existing laws in relation to hate crimes etc? Well clearly they are not tough enough or the police would be able to stop a number of protests that preach hatred. One of the Woolwich attackers was well known for preaching his hatred towards the UK and its way of life. That should never have been allowed.

Likewise to soldiers. We have a democracy here. If the government elects its soldiers to go off and fight whatever war they want then that is legal until deemed otherwise. Protesting at a soldier's funeral or the return of a soldier's body from abroad is completely unacceptable. A stop should be put to that.

I made the point we should remove these people that preach hate to EITHER that country of origin or some other country that will have them. I'm sure for a price a country could be found.

I'm against hatred of any kind and if a mob got up to protest against teachers then that would be wrong as well. Of course it would.

As a developed country the UK chooses to go out and put its own soldier's lives at risk in Iraq or Afghanistan. The UK sets out to obey international laws. Getting rid of Saddam Hussein or the Taliban was a good thing. If crimes are found to have been committed then the offenders should be prosecuted.

Your last sentence seems to be written in such a way as "by meddling in other country's affairs then it can expect all this to happen".

What I'm saying is simple. As a free democracy I think we're too relaxed about allowing folk to spout hatred to our way of life - and that includes our soldiers and government (by definition we elect them so they are an extension of us).

If someone stands on a street corner ****ging off the UK and all it stands for then they should be carted off and prosecuted. If a judge deems it serious enough to warrant straight deportation then so be it.

And before you say anything I'm as far removed from a typical far-right British army supporter as there can be! I'm Irish and my instinct is to support Labour but I think enough is enough here. I have an Irish passport but choose to live here. That to me means I accept the British way of life and all that comes with it. If someone hates this country then there are hundreds of others to choose from!

Rant over!!
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Good post mate thats my view ( Thats from an ex soldier by the way )

I am a labour supporter through and through as well
 
The problem is too many people excercising their "rights" without takling a moment to think about their responsibilities. You can't have one without the other.

People must have the freedom to protest about whatever they want, whether its pro gay marriage, anti abortion or wanting the UK out of Afghanistan, but they have to be made aware that with that right comes responsibility and consequence.

Inciting someone to break the law must incur a penalty, whether it is a fanatic pretending to be a muslim (because lets face it - these people are not really religious) or the EDL encouraging people to burn mosques or even the guy shouting racial abuse at the football match.
Whether that consequence is deportation or prison will depend on the individual circumstances, but we must be able to punish those who preach hate and violence regardless of race, religion, gender or whatever motive they have.
 

WA Toffee said:
The problem is too many people excercising their "rights" without takling a moment to think about their responsibilities. You can't have one without the other.

People must have the freedom to protest about whatever they want, whether its pro gay marriage, anti abortion or wanting the UK out of Afghanistan, but they have to be made aware that with that right comes responsibility and consequence.

Inciting someone to break the law must incur a penalty, whether it is a fanatic pretending to be a muslim (because lets face it - these people are not really religious) or the EDL encouraging people to burn mosques or even the guy shouting racial abuse at the football match.
Whether that consequence is deportation or prison will depend on the individual circumstances, but we must be able to punish those who preach hate and violence regardless of race, religion, gender or whatever motive they have.
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I agree with this.Well said WA Toffee.
 

I think a lot of parties have to take responsibility for this.

1. The UK and US Governments.

Our middle-eastern foreign-policy isn't really where it should be, I was talking to a lot of muslims the other night online who seem to think that our 'war on terror' is nothing but a front to attack muslims.

It also seems that the (illegal) use of drones on Afghan/Pakistan land has sparked a new wave of anger - whenever one of those goes of you don't just kill one man, most of the time you wipe out an entire village with him.

2. MI5.

News came out that these men were questioned before this attack, why wasn't the right evidence brought up? Something went wrong, maybe with a mis-communication or something - but they had their opportunity and they blew it completely.

3. The Mosques which these men attended.

I read today that some extremists preached at the Mosque which these men attended on a regular basis, why was this allowed to happen?
 
hullefc said:
Why are teachers not a 'specific sector of society' or road sweepers or nurses or door people or bus drivers or tube workers or shop assistants or any other person that works. There is laws that deal with hate crimes or hatred towards others.

And what if the person has a UK passport where will they be deported to, a penal colony?

There seems to be a bit of selectivity going on. What about the deaths in custody, torture and aggression shown towards Iraqi's, Afghani's etc., in the 'war against terror'. Where should the perpetrators of such crimes be deported too?

It is quite simple, Britain should not meddle in the affairs of other countries.
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They started it
 
Number_25 these Muslims you were speaking to were obviously stupid if they seriously believe that western goverments would waste all the cash they have and used the "war on terror" just to attack Muslims. The real problem we have in this country is that it have become exceptable and even cool to hate this country (I'm taking about ALL people in general now). I don't understand that attitude at all, hate the goverment by all means but this country for all if faults is still the best in the world. Maybe I'm sentimental, but I'm still patriotic.
 
Hullefc, I agree that we as a nation should stay away from problems in other countrys. However would that also mean that politcal asylum sould also stop (it is interferance after all!) ? Oh I can hear the Left screaming blue murder alredy!
 
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