New Everton Stadium - Hill Dickinson Stadium

[Ferguson1878]

Who knows how many of them will be in our end on seat unique tickets aswell, nothing to stop them if they pay the stupid price is there?

Utd will be in there too

 

[Tom Hughes]

Yup. As supporters, we have been rubbish for years.

When we do get behind them, we are like a 12th man - like the Palace game.

Our new home has been louder than Goodison was towards the end, but that really isn't saying anything.

I think a lot of fans were quite heavily sold on the "blue wall" and the "designed for atmosphere" claims given by the club and Meis over a very long period..... from the initial consultation phases to the big design unveiling, and then through the whole construction phase, this is what was repeatedly sold to us etc.... There's now some disappointment that somehow it isn't quite the "automatic" cauldron that many expected. Yes, it is people who make the noise, but the design can greatly influence how it all works and even help prompt that process.

There can also be a big difference between designing a "whole stadium" for overall good acoustics, and designing a "home end" for atmosphere. For it to be the engine room (a la the yellow wall) for really generating and boosting those chants, filling the home-end with noise, which then fully engages the whole stadium to give a great atmosphere. Unfortunately, the high roof of the South stand, its slightly upturned geometry and the large gap between back row and roof, means the "acoustic catchment and feeback" for that end isn't particularly great. At 63 rows it also isn't that big (just a few rows more than the Gwladys St in fact). On top of that, the demographics of placing the most vociferous fans in just the bottom 27 rows (most distant from the roof) means that it's probably not the real "muscle" stand that most expected. Compare that to how Birmingham City's architect describes the design of their proposed stadium, where he mentions the "squeezing of that space" between roof and fans to really amplify the sound. We went for an elevated barrel roof, great for containing whole stadium noise generally, but slightly vacuous for generating home-end noise advantage.

Yes, Goodison also wasn't great for atmosphere for many games, and it certainly wasn't designed for its acoustics in any way, with its relatively tall stands and high roof lines etc.... However, in the days of standing and particularly for 50k+ gates, it was always extremely noisy. It never had a kop-type terrace, but the tight overlapping stands brought everyone much tighter to the pitch and that, plus standing and sitting on all sides meant that it was very responsive to any incident on the pitch, so that when the blue touch paper was lit.... the quietish arena became an absolute bearpit. Before the 70s much of the noise came from the sides with the large Goodison Rd terrace producing the bulk of that famous Goodison roar across the shorter (cross pitch) axis.

The new stadium is an even more cavernous space to fill with noise, but when that high threshold of engaged fans is met, then the barrel roof will ensure a great "whole stadium" atmosphere. Simon Inglis, the well known writer on the history of football stadiums wrote that Goodison was famous for the atmosphere that prevailed there on special occasions.... I think that might also be the case for our new stadium.

Of course, there is also that whole "bedding in" process where the most vociferous fans eventually find their place and the atmosphere can really evolve. For instance, when the Green Brigade relocated to the corner section at Celtic Park, it marked a real step-change in the atmosphere there. Perhaps if an upper corner section (or both) could be better utilised in this way, then those really trying to affect the atmosphere, would also find greater acoustic leverage just under to roof, to keep the atmosphere at least simmering, for all games! Time will tell. To this effect the North stand is a bit of a damp squib.... Goodison at least felt like it had 2 home ends.... far less so at BMD. Maybe this will develop too.

 

[NathDogg]

Let’s be honest, we completely bolloxed the move of fans over to BMD when the window process was announced, breaking up groups and not basically picking up and dropping how people we’re situated at GP into BMD.

I know they prob couldn’t do it that way, but that allocation process and the generally poor football we’re playing is why the place isn’t bouncing.

Dedicated singing section in the south, allowed standing there without getting moaned at - we could have got it so right but we’ve fudged it.

Basically, You’ve got the park end dementors, who used to sit at GP and do frig all but moan, scattered all over the new gaff, telling people to sit down and shut up.

 

[davek]

You're getting me wrong. The seats available are likely to be ST holders that cannot/do not want to go to that particular game.

If they can't shift to friends and family, they add it to the resale platform but if you don't do that soon enough, members who want to go have got their tickets through the ballet or picked up some that were put on resale early on.

If someone from Joe public wants to go to a game as a random one off, they have to fork out at least £35 for membership on top of 70 quid for a ticket. Imagine it's a dad and a lad and you are shelling out £170+ before you've even included travel, food etc. That's what the current system is blocking. You might go for £100 all in, near double to sit and watch a bog standard league game when we are playing so crap...not much appeal.

Whichever way you cut it it: we've gone from gates of 52.5K to 51.5K or thereabouts for the last home match.

Yes there are seasonal factors, ticketing issues and a glut of home games to factor in, but my point is that it's a 1K drop off in attendance that should never be arising and there's an easy solution if the club wanted to take it to fill the stadium to capacity.

Not a good look on a state of the art stadium opened barely 6 months ago to have so many empty seats, and I think at base there needs to be a recognition by the facility operators that we've reached that point where core 'customers' have proven to be inelastic with their demand. In short: we have expensive tickets that cant all be sold because much of our fanbase dont have the disposable income to pay for them.

The stadium operators are going to slowly choke off later generations of fans if they carry on down this path. A much more realistic ticket price is going to be needed. Look at the cup game tomorrow where prices against a PL club were held down to £20 - they disappeared when they went on general sale in about 5 minutes. Of course, that cant be the case for actual PL games anymore, but if the club dropped their prices by a tenner or 15 quid for any game outside the elite clubs' visits then that would boost demand.

It's going to be interesting to see the pattern of Everton home attendances over the course of the season. You can be sure the club and its stadium operating company will be looking closely at the undulating picture with next season in mind. As things stand (without European football next season) price rises are simply a fantasy - that's for sure.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

So genuine questions about this , what do the detectors on the way in work for ? Is it metal because not everyone sets one off , I’ve not set one off in weeks and I have keys , phones & a power pack . So is it for show ? If you set it off what level of searching would you say it is ? I mean if you’ve seen it you know it’s not a search at all .

If you’re looking to prevent a terrorist attack do you search one in what 30 people ? That’s not how boarding a plane or entering a secure building works.

If it’s security /anti terror do you stop any searching when the queues get busy to assist reduction and move the crowd ? Because that’s what happened at the Brentford game .

The street furniture HVM on regent road to prevent vehicle access then yeah I can see they’re to protect the public and that’s great but let’s be honest about the searching .

Considering any potential hostile reconnaissance, I don't think they'd disclose exactly what they detect mate. I do know there's things like Evolv tech that is used at arenas etc that is pretty sophisticated, it recognises things like the examples you give. Maybe they have a version of something like that? It would make sense, given every single fan will have keys and/or a phone - you need one for entry.

Visible, prominent security though is obviously a hostile deterrent and one I think we all should be welcome and grateful for. Anyone snarling at it needs a clip around the ear.

I figure there's always a perimeter though, an extra searches, if not done efficiently can cause this;



... I see ref to Ariana Grande concert in this thread, which was outside the entry. No matter the search security, there's a point before it.

While on the subject, I do wonder how many fans know the best way to report suspicious behaviour etc. The common sense is alert one of the many stewards/police - but other venues have things like WhatsApp/SMS reporting etc. I can see Everton have reporting for supporter behaviour etc but not 100% if that's for deeper concerns. Does anyone know?

 

[davek]

lots of events, perhaps even most, wont let you take food/drink in to the venue but lets not let that get in the way of having a pop hey

It really doesn't. I normally laugh and shrug off your bait, but those minimum wage agency staff are being trained and told what to do and some people find it weird that they get searched or checked.

It's not a "if" it's a "when" the next incident happens sadly - and currently the fan zone is a current potential target.

The stewarding on the gates is a joke for many home games at those gates. People are just waltzing through without checks one game; the next game there's two searches in close proximity: one for tickets the next with bags and through metal detectors.

Maybe they think terrorists clock off every fortnight so it's not worth checking too closely some games?

 

[Harryflashman]

Considering any potential hostile reconnaissance, I don't think they'd disclose exactly what they detect mate. I do know there's things like Evolv tech that is used at arenas etc that is pretty sophisticated, it recognises things like the examples you give. Maybe they have a version of something like that? It would make sense, given every single fan will have keys and/or a phone - you need one for entry.

Visible, prominent security though is obviously a hostile deterrent and one I think we all should be welcome and grateful for. Anyone snarling at it needs a clip around the ear.

I figure there's always a perimeter though, an extra searches, if not done efficiently can cause this;



... I see ref to Ariana Grande concert in this thread, which was outside the entry. No matter the search security, there's a point before it.

While on the subject, I do wonder how many fans know the best way to report suspicious behaviour etc. The common sense is alert one of the many stewards/police - but other venues have things like WhatsApp/SMS reporting etc. I can see Everton have reporting for supporter behaviour etc but not 100% if that's for deeper concerns. Does anyone know?

I know a little bit and evolv is one i way thinking off . Perhaps this isn’t the best place for discussion , however I’d be very interested on the specifics but perhaps because I’m nosey .

The question of whether you’d have a high tech systems backed up by a bloke with a wand who ‘waves ‘ it generally in your direction is one worth pondering.

The issue with stopping any searches , which happened at Brentford at at least one gate , to apparently clear the backlog is also potentially a puzzle .

 

[davek]

I think a lot of fans were quite heavily sold on the "blue wall" and the "designed for atmosphere" claims given by the club and Meis over a very long period..... from the initial consultation phases to the big design unveiling, and then through the whole construction phase, this is what was repeatedly sold to us etc.... There's now some disappointment that somehow it isn't quite the "automatic" cauldron that many expected. Yes, it is people who make the noise, but the design can greatly influence how it all works and even help prompt that process.

There can also be a big difference between designing a "whole stadium" for overall good acoustics, and designing a "home end" for atmosphere. For it to be the engine room (a la the yellow wall) for really generating and boosting those chants, filling the home-end with noise, which then fully engages the whole stadium to give a great atmosphere. Unfortunately, the high roof of the South stand, its slightly upturned geometry and the large gap between back row and roof, means the "acoustic catchment and feeback" for that end isn't particularly great. At 63 rows it also isn't that big (just a few rows more than the Gwladys St in fact). On top of that, the demographics of placing the most vociferous fans in just the bottom 27 rows (most distant from the roof) means that it's probably not the real "muscle" stand that most expected. Compare that to how Birmingham City's architect describes the design of their proposed stadium, where he mentions the "squeezing of that space" between roof and fans to really amplify the sound. We went for an elevated barrel roof, great for containing whole stadium noise generally, but slightly vacuous for generating home-end noise advantage.

Yes, Goodison also wasn't great for atmosphere for many games, and it certainly wasn't designed for its acoustics in any way, with its relatively tall stands and high roof lines etc.... However, in the days of standing and particularly for 50k+ gates, it was always extremely noisy. It never had a kop-type terrace, but the tight overlapping stands brought everyone much tighter to the pitch and that, plus standing and sitting on all sides meant that it was very responsive to any incident on the pitch, so that when the blue touch paper was lit.... the quietish arena became an absolute bearpit. Before the 70s much of the noise came from the sides with the large Goodison Rd terrace producing the bulk of that famous Goodison roar across the shorter (cross pitch) axis.

The new stadium is an even more cavernous space to fill with noise, but when that high threshold of engaged fans is met, then the barrel roof will ensure a great "whole stadium" atmosphere. Simon Inglis, the well known writer on the history of football stadiums wrote that Goodison was famous for the atmosphere that prevailed there on special occasions.... I think that might also be the case for our new stadium.

Of course, there is also that whole "bedding in" process where the most vociferous fans eventually find their place and the atmosphere can really evolve. For instance, when the Green Brigade relocated to the corner section at Celtic Park, it marked a real step-change in the atmosphere there. Perhaps if an upper corner section (or both) could be better utilised in this way, then those really trying to affect the atmosphere, would also find greater acoustic leverage just under to roof, to keep the atmosphere at least simmering, for all games! Time will tell. To this effect the North stand is a bit of a damp squib.... Goodison at least felt like it had 2 home ends.... far less so at BMD. Maybe this will develop too.

Good point concerning the Green Brigde. However, they had to fight tooth and nail to get that past the Celtic owners and they are constantly at the whim of those directors who now target them.

In other words: an ultra type curve like you suggest requires some semi-autonomy from the club in order to build up its fanaticism and the atmosphere it generates.

Can you see Everton Stadium Operator co ltd or EFC or whoever countenancing that?

 

[NathDogg]

There seems to be a lot of people on the security checks who don’t know what they are doing or seem untrained, which I think is causing the delays. The lad with the wand was just waiving it about in the air on Wednesday where we went in and not getting people to empty everything from their person - the supervisor was hammering and shouting at him, watching from the sides.

No problem with what they are trying to do, it’s the how that’s the problem.

 

[davek]

Considering any potential hostile reconnaissance, I don't think they'd disclose exactly what they detect mate. I do know there's things like Evolv tech that is used at arenas etc that is pretty sophisticated, it recognises things like the examples you give. Maybe they have a version of something like that? It would make sense, given every single fan will have keys and/or a phone - you need one for entry.

Visible, prominent security though is obviously a hostile deterrent and one I think we all should be welcome and grateful for. Anyone snarling at it needs a clip around the ear.

I figure there's always a perimeter though, an extra searches, if not done efficiently can cause this;



... I see ref to Ariana Grande concert in this thread, which was outside the entry. No matter the search security, there's a point before it.

While on the subject, I do wonder how many fans know the best way to report suspicious behaviour etc. The common sense is alert one of the many stewards/police - but other venues have things like WhatsApp/SMS reporting etc. I can see Everton have reporting for supporter behaviour etc but not 100% if that's for deeper concerns. Does anyone know?

That sort of congestion you highlight at the gates there reinforces your point from a few days back that loads of people just dont enter the plaza due to lack of what they're looking for in terms of food and drink. So you get a late throng of people who've been in the local ale houses and getting fast food from the latest shops that have recently popped up on Regent Road trying to shuffle through the gates all at once.

The list of improvements the stadium operators have to make will be as long as your arm even at this stage.

 

[DavenBlue]

Im worried about the derby but for different reasons. The RS fans walking unrestricted into blues on regent road is a recipe for disaster .

There was a kick off after the Newcastle game with their fans singing and celebrating that didn’t end well . I have real concerns when we play them , a big result either way and I think we’ll have issues . Especially when you consider at goodison they’d restrict access to home fans along bullens road to prevent such incidents and it appears they’re will be no measures in place at BMD.

Wednesday was the first time I'd left straight after the final whistle I think, due to the South Stand bar not being open (where we normally head while the crowds clear). It's not open post-match tomorrow either apparently.

I was suprised at the lack of police/stewards along the road heading back in the direction of Sandhills. Considering you have all the away fans exiting and heading that way towards their coaches at the same time. There were Wolves supporters mixed in everywhere and a group singing/chanting. Usual stuff about selling our soul and the city being red. No reaction from our fans but the potential for trouble is clearly there.

 

[Harryflashman]

Wednesday was the first time I'd left straight after the final whistle I think, due to the South Stand bar not being open (where we normally head while the crowds clear). It's not open post-match tomorrow either apparently.

I was suprised at the lack of police/stewards along the road heading back in the direction of Sandhills. Considering you have all the away fans exiting and heading that way towards their coaches at the same time. There were Wolves supporters mixed in everywhere and a group singing/chanting. Usual stuff about selling our soul and the city being red. No reaction from our fans but the potential for trouble is clearly there.

It happened against Newcastle it kicked off and it was more than pushing and shoving , going to be an issue going forward

 

[mickefc]

Our new home has been louder than Goodison was towards the end

I've gone from Lower Gwladys to Lower South and it doesn't seem anywhere near as loud. It might sound different from other parts of the ground though.

 

[Jayblue9]

I've gone from Lower Gwladys to Lower South and it doesn't seem anywhere near as loud. It might sound different from other parts of the ground though.

2 of us sit in the upper South but sat in the lower West Stand vs Wolves and we both couldn't believe how much louder it sounded compared to our seats...

 

[davek]

Wednesday was the first time I'd left straight after the final whistle I think, due to the South Stand bar not being open (where we normally head while the crowds clear). It's not open post-match tomorrow either apparently.

I was suprised at the lack of police/stewards along the road heading back in the direction of Sandhills. Considering you have all the away fans exiting and heading that way towards their coaches at the same time. There were Wolves supporters mixed in everywhere and a group singing/chanting. Usual stuff about selling our soul and the city being red. No reaction from our fans but the potential for trouble is clearly there.

Expect the club to act AFTER the event - when there's been a major disturbance between home and away fans. Then they'll keep away fans back half an hour or so after games, which they should be doing right now.