Youth - When are we going to use them?

[zzr45]

You have player A on £100k a week, you have player B on 5k a week. Who does it make more financial sense to play? If you don’t play A, what are the board likely to say? Will big money transfers be sanctioned in future?

The side I never really considered til I had a conversation with a mate who works with the FA. Essentially inflation of wages is making it harder for youth to get in -,clubs want to see return on huge investments.

 

[KaiserEFC]

Probably not playing because they’re not good enough. We’re not going to have another Rooney.

 

[BernieH]

DCL 21
Richarlison 21
Kenny 20
Davies 20
Lookman 21

That's 5 who get regular game time, how many do you actually believe is realistic in a first 11.

I think the phrase that sums it up best is 'if you are good enough, you are old enough'

 

[Nymzee]

I think the phrase that sums it up best is 'if you are good enough, you are old enough'

We still in the Michael Jackson thread?

 

[BernieH]

We still in the Michael Jackson thread?

Well Wade was a good dancer but 7 is pushing it a bit

 

[blueloon]

Broached looks physically ready to be involved. You could say the same for Hornby and even Feeney too. The left field option is probably Anthony Gordon. I remember Dowell about 4 years ago playing well with the first team. I think Gordon may really benefit from having some pre-season minutes.

Gordon is a great example of how things swing back and to for youngsters. He made a huge impact as a 16 year old last season at U18 , and was a standout. Then an injury, came back this season looking like he’d grown physically, faded a bit and made little impact initially at U23s, made the England squad, another injury, came back , now when he’s played he’s arguably been our best attacker at u18 and U23s in recent months. Yet he hasn’t been a consistent starter at U23s so it’s hard to tell if he’s being carefully nursed at this level. Years ago at 17 he’d have been thrown into the 1st team , I would love to see him feature but there’s a lot going on we don’t see I guess.

 

[catcherintherye]

Gordon is a great example of how things swing back and to for youngsters. He made a huge impact as a 16 year old last season at U18 , and was a standout. Then an injury, came back this season looking like he’d grown physically, faded a bit and made little impact initially at U23s, made the England squad, another injury, came back , now when he’s played he’s arguably been our best attacker at u18 and U23s in recent months. Yet he hasn’t been a consistent starter at U23s so it’s hard to tell if he’s being carefully nursed at this level. Years ago at 17 he’d have been thrown into the 1st team , I would love to see him feature but there’s a lot going on we don’t see I guess.

This is a good point, young players progress is not linear. I actually thought Gordon was excellent in the friendly game earlier this season.

A decision appears to have been taken to stop having the youngest under 23's team in the league. I don't suspect it's been a strategic decision from the top, but rather in amongst the chaos at first team level of the last 3-4 years Unsworth has carved out quite a niche for himself. I think he has taken the decision and others have been happy to go along with it. We now try to have an under 23's that is highly competitive and in line with most other teams. Our 11 the other night for example was only 3 years older (across the 11) than Liverpools. If you make subs into account, I'd imagine our side was younger. This seems to be lost on many commentators who are all too happy to ay the likes of Liverpool play a young squad while we have lots of older lads. The reality is we do what most others do now.

For lads like Gordon, it means him getting game time for the 23's should be seen as a bigger achievement. This is doubly true when you factor in he is playing for the best under 23's team in the country. It's a real marker for success, whereas probably pre Unsworth it was more a reflection of the lack of resource available in that squad and that nobody was left.

I don't have a problem with it either, make it as difficult as possible to get opportunities to play and then if the younger players do well then they should be hungrier for it.

That being said you have to box clever when it comes to things such as pre-season. Both Broached and Bowler are probably a little ahead of Gordon now, but I have little doubt Gordon will be the better player overall. It makes sense for Gordon to have some sessions with the first team and have the odd game, if only then to hopefully be a regular for the 23's.

I like Gordon a lot. I also think Carroll looks a great player in the 18's and think Hunt is strong, but a little small.

 

[catcherintherye]

DCL 21
Richarlison 21
Kenny 20
Davies 20
Lookman 21

That's 5 who get regular game time, how many do you actually believe is realistic in a first 11.

I think the phrase that sums it up best is 'if you are good enough, you are old enough'

This is an important point, add in Williams 21, Baningime 20, Connolly 21, Dowell 21 who were all playing with the first team squad in pre season (though I appreciate only Baningime looks like he has a first team future here). Factor in Vlasic 21 and Onyekuru 21 coming back from loans into the first team squad. Then Mina 24, Zouma 24, Digne 25, Gomes 25, Pickford (just) 25 and we have a very young squad. There is only enough room for so many.

 

[Gaffa]

Personally I don't think Lookman will be here next season. I also don't think Dowell is cut out for the premier League.
I have requested before, why don't these u23 lads get a chance and agree the bench as a starter would be ideal. Look at What Ole is doing at united, getting them on the bench and getting them on. A lot of these lads in U23 will eventually be released or go to other clubs. Look at Conor McAleny

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

My attitude to youth players has always been that if there's a senior player whose been out of form for a reasonable period of time then you take them out of the team and give a youngster a chance instead. If the youngster does okay, even if there's the odd mistake, you keep them in because they're young and young players are always going to make mistakes. What's most important is the overall performance, effort and application. If those are right, then the lads done his job and should have another go

The problem is that enough people don't grade younger players on a curve, which is what you have to do. What's acceptable for a 19 year old in his first senior season is completely different to what's acceptable for a 31 year old in their 12th. Too many people don't make that distinction however, which is why we see so many of the younger players get unfairly roasted on places like this, because people are expecting them to be perfect every time out, which isn't going to happen. Even senior players aren't perfect every game, and they've had ten times the experience of a lad breaking in to the first team for the first time

This is why younger players need to be supported by supporters, not held to unrealistic standards or held under an intense microscope of scrutiny. They have to be allowed to make mistakes and to grow as both players and human beings. Fan bases that do this right reap the benefits, whilst those who don't see young players fall by the wayside

Some lads will just not be good enough, but you can't make that decision after 2-3 "alright" games, because when you're 19 and playing at the top level "alright" carries far more weight than it would if you were 29, and a fan base should be mature and educated enough to recognise this

 

[Nymzee]

Personally I don't think Lookman will be here next season. I also don't think Dowell is cut out for the premier League.
I have requested before, why don't these u23 lads get a chance and agree the bench as a starter would be ideal. Look at What Ole is doing at united, getting them on the bench and getting them on. A lot of these lads in U23 will eventually be released or go to other clubs. Look at Conor McAleny

Because they’re not good enough yet to come off the bench and have any sort of impact on the first team. The sole reason for a bench.

It’s insanely simple.

United have kids on the bench because half their squad is dead.

 

[JohnJq]

The problem with this league is we don’t build through youth. We build with $$$$

Why give younguns a chance when you could just purchase Bolasie for 28 mil?

We paid (up to) 6 million for Lewis Gibson and 4.5 million for Josh Bowler nearly 2 years ago, and neither is as yet a regular in the U23s. Hopefully Brand's scouting network is a lot better than that Walsh clown who's incompetence and flagrant spending extended beyond the first team squad.

 

[Nymzee]

We paid (up to) 6 million for Lewis Gibson and 4.5 million for Josh Bowler nearly 2 years ago, and neither is as yet a regular in the U23s. Hopefully Brand's scouting network is a lot better than that Walsh clown who's incompetence and flagrant spending extended beyond the first team squad.

They’re both regulars in the U23’s.

 

[BillLovesRoo]

Personally I don't think Lookman will be here next season. I also don't think Dowell is cut out for the premier League.
I have requested before, why don't these u23 lads get a chance and agree the bench as a starter would be ideal. Look at What Ole is doing at united, getting them on the bench and getting them on. A lot of these lads in U23 will eventually be released or go to other clubs. Look at Conor McAleny

Solskjaer has a list of about 12 players out injured, he would not be putting these lads on the bench if he had a fully fit squad, like we currently have.

This is the thing for young players, alot of them get there chance on the basis of injurys, Rashford made his Utd debut because all 4 of uniteds centre forward options were injured at the time (plus the likes of Wilson etc out on loan), he took his chance and thats what the young players need to do!

But while we have a large squad (already bulked out with the previous generation of succesful u23s - DCL, Kenny, Davies etc. Chances are going to be few & far between

 

[Toffeelover]

The title is a good question, I wish I knew.