Youth - When are we going to use them?

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Yeh I wasn't sure what point you were making with it tbh haha but agree.

Probably better to say that the kids who can break into the first team are the ones who are already in the first team, at least in training and match day 18s. Speaking of the strikers specifically, Simms, Hornby, and Sambou seem to be the three with the best chance of breaking through, but they're all behind Sandro and Niasse, both of whom aren't with the club presently. But maybe I'm just saying the obvious here.
 
The gap between U23 and PL is huge. If they were good enough they'd be on the fringes of the first team like Dowell etc.
 
....the situation is the same as it’s always been, you can only introduce youth if it’s good enough.

The very best will force their way in, but they have to be very special. Nothing has changed.

Potentially but I think on the continent young players get more chances before being written off so that the late developers also get a chance of making it. Lots of young players leave big teams, play regularly at mid table La Liga or serie A teams and then are picked back up. Our mid table teams just don’t allow that. Palace couldn’t even play Loftus-Cheek cheek every game such was their desire to stay in the league and play experienced prem players.

English football demands young players to be a Rooney and absolutely take the eagle by storm before being afforded regular first team football. But look at Stones for example, we persisted with him through some very ropey seasons and performances and it’s arguably only let season that he became a world class centreback. He only became that because we played him regularly and took his mistakes. Same with Kane, Pochettino played him when some of the managers he was on loan too wouldn’t even fit him in. Rashford got his chance only because of an injury crisis and Van Gaal changing his position, he was never earmarked as a star, neither was Lingard, perhaps both rated as decent prospects but have altered into class players through playing regularly.

Meanwhile we give Davies a game or two off the bench and immediately start moaning even when he plays quite well. Same with Calvert Lewin. In 2 or 3 years these two might be very very good players but they won’t be if we use them sporadically off the bench and expect match winning turns.

Talent and opportunity make young players into good players but we only seem to demand the first in English football to be afforded the second.
 

We’re a mid table side who have had nothing to play for and very poor performances from senior players yet Lookman Davies Kenny haven’t had the minutes they probably could have done and we loaned out Holgate Dowell and Vlasic in the knowledge we wouldn’t play them enough.

Would Dowell really have done worse than Siggurdson in some games this season? Is Holgate worse than Zouma or Keane?

We should be playing more of the young players, at least they might actually fight for the shirt a bit.
 
Potentially but I think on the continent young players get more chances before being written off so that the late developers also get a chance of making it. Lots of young players leave big teams, play regularly at mid table La Liga or serie A teams and then are picked back up. Our mid table teams just don’t allow that. Palace couldn’t even play Loftus-Cheek cheek every game such was their desire to stay in the league and play experienced prem players.

English football demands young players to be a Rooney and absolutely take the eagle by storm before being afforded regular first team football. But look at Stones for example, we persisted with him through some very ropey seasons and performances and it’s arguably only let season that he became a world class centreback. He only became that because we played him regularly and took his mistakes. Same with Kane, Pochettino played him when some of the managers he was on loan too wouldn’t even fit him in. Rashford got his chance only because of an injury crisis and Van Gaal changing his position, he was never earmarked as a star, neither was Lingard, perhaps both rated as decent prospects but have altered into class players through playing regularly.

Meanwhile we give Davies a game or two off the bench and immediately start moaning even when he plays quite well. Same with Calvert Lewin. In 2 or 3 years these two might be very very good players but they won’t be if we use them sporadically off the bench and expect match winning turns.

Talent and opportunity make young players into good players but we only seem to demand the first in English football to be afforded the second.

....there aren’t many released by Everton who turn out to be superstars.
 
I would like to see more of them get a chance as well

But to be honest, I've got to the point now where I get genuinely worried when a young lad gets a chance, because he'll always be held to ludicrous standards and will be quickly deemed as "not good enough" after a couple of kicks of the ball from the usual gallery of geniuses in the worst element of our support

We're the worst supporters in the League when it comes to young players. We don't back them and don't support them when they need it most

Just look at the threads for all the young lads who get chances in the first team

Page after page after page after pager after PAGE of people knocking them. How is anyone supposed to succeed in that sort of environment?

At the end of the day, we get the club we deserve
Spot on.

If I was a young player I'd be getting as far away from Everton as I could.

The abuse Tom Davies and DCL get is pathetic.
 
This was my thinking, I am not aware of any truly standout players though, a few well regarded but no more. I am sure you have far better knowledge than I do.

It is hard to pinpoint anyone immediately ready to step up. I often think with younger players, you are probably better looking at some of the lads at championship clubs ready to step up. They are often a bit older though and so it depends how much they want to invest in terms of time.

Broached looks physically ready to be involved. You could say the same for Hornby and even Feeney too. The left field option is probably Anthony Gordon. I remember Dowell about 4 years ago playing well with the first team. I think Gordon may really benefit from having some pre-season minutes.
 

So maybe I should have named this ‘Youth - let’s name seven substitute of which two have to be home grown and under 20’ for an opportunity of youth to have a go?
 
Part of the problem with our “Youth” is people’s perception and the need for instant answers. There are probably 20 + knowledgeable posters contributing to the “Youth” thread . Other people see we are top of the League , pop in for the first time and ask “ Have we got the next Rooney/ Barkley yet?” . The answer is “ No , but if you read the last 10 pages you’ll get a good understanding of our youngsters”. Few people are interested enough to do that. While there are differing views on individuals, the consensus is that none are currently capable of forcing their way into the 1st team squad on merit.

Our success at U23s is very much based on Unsworth having created a decent defence with good players who are protected by hard working midfielders. We have the best U23s defensive record in the league by some distance, but don’t score enough goals. The u18s by contrast have a highly creative midfield and two or three prolific goalscorers but of course play at a level where inconsistency is the norm. Ellis Simms hits the headlines for his number of goals and people think he’s going to make the 1st team , whereas in reality he’s struggling to get ahead of Hornby/ Sambou in the U23s who are not consistent enough to challenge DCL for a first team spot.

For me the most likely players to be involved this season are young defenders , particularly if there are injuries that promote them into the squad. Morgan Feeney and Joao Virginia seem to train regularly with the 1st team so must be in for consideration, but I’m not sure if we would thrust inexperienced youngsters into such demanding positions as Centre Back and GK if the team is playing poorly. Our two youngest defenders 18 year old Lewis Gibson and 17 year old Ryan Astley possibly have the best chance this season, Gibson as a left back and Astley as a right back . Both are really CBs but have the physicality to cope as full backs if we have injuries. Astley’s going to play for the first team , it’s just a question of when and not rushing his development.
Spot on I went to everton v Arsenal u23 earlier in the season. First time watching at that level.. I enjoyed it more at that level than the pish the first team are surving up ..The defence looked solid the right back left back looked really good and the ginger fella at the back looked like he cared ... apart from that nothing grabbed you to say to my lad look at this kid he’s got it all
 
Part of the problem with our “Youth” is people’s perception and the need for instant answers. There are probably 20 + knowledgeable posters contributing to the “Youth” thread . Other people see we are top of the League , pop in for the first time and ask “ Have we got the next Rooney/ Barkley yet?” . The answer is “ No , but if you read the last 10 pages you’ll get a good understanding of our youngsters”. Few people are interested enough to do that. While there are differing views on individuals, the consensus is that none are currently capable of forcing their way into the 1st team squad on merit.

Our success at U23s is very much based on Unsworth having created a decent defence with good players who are protected by hard working midfielders. We have the best U23s defensive record in the league by some distance, but don’t score enough goals. The u18s by contrast have a highly creative midfield and two or three prolific goalscorers but of course play at a level where inconsistency is the norm. Ellis Simms hits the headlines for his number of goals and people think he’s going to make the 1st team , whereas in reality he’s struggling to get ahead of Hornby/ Sambou in the U23s who are not consistent enough to challenge DCL for a first team spot.

For me the most likely players to be involved this season are young defenders , particularly if there are injuries that promote them into the squad. Morgan Feeney and Joao Virginia seem to train regularly with the 1st team so must be in for consideration, but I’m not sure if we would thrust inexperienced youngsters into such demanding positions as Centre Back and GK if the team is playing poorly. Our two youngest defenders 18 year old Lewis Gibson and 17 year old Ryan Astley possibly have the best chance this season, Gibson as a left back and Astley as a right back . Both are really CBs but have the physicality to cope as full backs if we have injuries. Astley’s going to play for the first team , it’s just a question of when and not rushing his development.

I think next season (from reading yours and others posts on the youth teams thread) may well be the season we see some action with Virginia, Astley, Feeney and Gibson all seeming to be highly rated. Funnily enough theyre all playing in the positions we need strengthened -- Right back, Centre back and Left back.

I think we will need a back up left back next season and also there may be a spot for a young centre back to enable us to spend more on a starter rather than filling two centre back positions. Right back is trickier with Holgate, Kenny and Coleman all vying for a place but no one cementing a position.

Just to add what I posted earlier in the thread;

GK -- Virginia
RB -- Holgate / Kenny / Astley
CB -- Feeney / Astley / Gibson
LB -- Gibson / Robinson / Connolly
CM -- Vlasic / Davies / Baningime / Williams
LF -- Richarlison / Lookman / Onyekuru
CF -- Calvert-Lewin
RF -- Dowell / Sandro

Theres a lot of players there of which I imagine a fair chunk will be sold and loaned in the summer, however it does show we have numbers on the verge or starting in the first team.
 

The interesting thing for me is that all of the players who have contributed to that league table were introduced a few seasons ago. We haven't had a single young player introduced to the first team this season. So it's great that Kenny, Holgate, DCL, Davies, Lookman and Richarlison have all had decent game time, you do wonder just how plentiful the next wave might be. We have a few young players who were bought for decent fees (Bowler and the defender from Newcastle whose name I forget), but neither have even really made the bench, let alone had any game time.
 

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