Young EFC Players Out On Loan 16-17

[atrottel]

He had big boots to fill and had a wobbly debut but after that he was solid. Not the quickest for a full back (but not slow). He was good positionally, decent on the ball and got stuck in. His timing of the tackle was very good and he always tried to get forward. He definitely looked like he had a future in the professional game but unless he's improved a lot then I don't think he's ready for week in week out Premier League football yet. Seemed to have a very good attitude though and everybody liked him, certainly wish him well. He never let us down.

One we have that is champing at the bit for a loan and might suit for a season in League One is Kieran Dowell (who seems to have lately hit a brick wall in the youth teams). You have had the solid midfielders who can build (Lundstram, Ledson), the reliable defender (Kenny) and the streaky forward (McAleny). Dowell is a very skilful attacking midfielder who can glide past the opposition and hit a lovely pass but who needs to learn how not to disappear in games and, as he said himself, to play in a man's game. (Think young Barkley type without the physique.) He was once thought to be ahead of Davies, who has sprinted past him into the first team.

Conor Grant (out of contract at the end of the season) would, I imagine, be staying with Doncaster if they move up to your level and I would grab Liam Walsh (had a stellar loan spell at Yeovil) if he ever becomes available on loan for League One (but he is being hunted by Championship clubs).

 

[mightymoyes]

Also, going off topic a little but I was wondering what your thoughts are on the EFL Trophy? Has it been beneficial having your u23 side in it?

dont think we really took it seriously, was more like a reserve u23 side we put out in it.
i'm sure that wasnt what the football league clubs signed up for.

 

[marchy]

I think th eproblem with the EFL Trophy was that a number of the games clashed with international fixtures so we had our best players away with the junior national sides. Pretty sure for the last game we had a lot of the under 18s playing, no matter how big their talent is playign against experienced pros is always going to be tough.

 

[Oxford]

dont think we really took it seriously, was more like a reserve u23 side we put out in it.
i'm sure that wasnt what the football league clubs signed up for.

Interesting, thanks.

It's caused a hell of a lot of upset at our level and people aren't happy. We're in the final on Sunday. Some of our fans are boycotting due to the changes but many will be going as the lure of Wembley is understandably difficult to turn down.

I definitely don't think fans of football league clubs want it again, but it's interesting to know what fans outside of our level think of it.

 

[marchy]

Interesting, thanks.

It's caused a hell of a lot of upset at our level and people aren't happy. We're in the final on Sunday. Some of our fans are boycotting due to the changes but many will be going as the lure of Wembley is understandably difficult to turn down.

I definitely don't think fans of football league clubs want it again, but it's interesting to know what fans outside of our level think of it.

I think it was a reasonable experiment, we've had people talking for years about Premier League clubs fielding reserve sides in the lower leagues like they do in Spain but this was a decent alternative. Problem for the Premier League sides was that the fixtures clashed with international weeks so a lot of their top youngsters were away. Problem for lower league clubs is do their fans really want to fork out to see another teams youngsters.

Its a real challenge to find a way to try and help young players make the step up and this was definetly worth a shot as it gave them a chance to mix it against experienced pros and play open age football. I think it also shows that the under 23 sides would struggle if they were allowed into the league and that loan based fooball is still probably the only viable option to get these players experience.

 

[marchy]

One thing it does do I guess is allow the manager to see whether a youngster can cope, so whilst as a team we were dissapointing it may have shown to the first team setup which players are worth including in future.

 

[TonyKay2]

One thing it does do I guess is allow the manager to see whether a youngster can cope, so whilst as a team we were dissapointing it may have shown to the first team setup which players are worth including in future.

But of course this only sees things from the Premier League team's perspective. The experiment sent out the message that the football league clubs are there to be used as nothing more than trial material. And to make things even worse, we are going to do it in the competition that is the only realistic chance you have of getting to Wembley!

 

[Eggs]

Interesting, thanks.

It's caused a hell of a lot of upset at our level and people aren't happy. We're in the final on Sunday. Some of our fans are boycotting due to the changes but many will be going as the lure of Wembley is understandably difficult to turn down.

I definitely don't think fans of football league clubs want it again, but it's interesting to know what fans outside of our level think of it.

....good luck in the final, just heard Lundstrum on SSN suggesting the competition shouldn't include Premiership clubs and I think most would agree with that sentiment. I think the aim has been to give junior players the experience of playing open age football but there's surely a better way of doing this (a return to reserve league football perhaps).

 

[Bruce Wayne]

....good luck in the final, just heard Lundstrum on SSN suggesting the competition shouldn't include Premiership clubs and I think most would agree with that sentiment. I think the aim has been to give junior players the experience of playing open age football but there's surely a better way of doing this (a return to reserve league football perhaps).

To be honest, I suspect the problem is less one of poor quality youth grade competitions as much as it is the transition to senior football. The big clubs harvest much of the best talent, but there is next to no chance of those players breaking into the first team. Couple that with both the huge fees English players command, and the apparent reluctance to play abroad (in part no doubt due to the wage drop they would probably have to take), and young players simply don't get first team football at a decent level.

So the typical path seems to be farmed out to club after club on loan, until they eventually get bored and leave at the end of their contract to a lower league club, at which point they might slowly climb back up the ladder. Michael Keane is a good example of this.

The players themselves need to take a degree of responsibility. They could easily sign for a 'lesser' club at youth level and get an easier path into the first team. They could easily take a drop in wages and play overseas.

Our youth system hasn't hampered players like Eric Dier, Mustafi, Paul Pogba and Pique at United and so on. I really don't think the training we give kids is the problem.

 

[mightymoyes]

To be honest, I suspect the problem is less one of poor quality youth grade competitions as much as it is the transition to senior football. The big clubs harvest much of the best talent, but there is next to no chance of those players breaking into the first team. Couple that with both the huge fees English players command, and the apparent reluctance to play abroad (in part no doubt due to the wage drop they would probably have to take), and young players simply don't get first team football at a decent level.

So the typical path seems to be farmed out to club after club on loan, until they eventually get bored and leave at the end of their contract to a lower league club, at which point they might slowly climb back up the ladder. Michael Keane is a good example of this.

The players themselves need to take a degree of responsibility. They could easily sign for a 'lesser' club at youth level and get an easier path into the first team. They could easily take a drop in wages and play overseas.

Our youth system hasn't hampered players like Eric Dier, Mustafi, Paul Pogba and Pique at United and so on. I really don't think the training we give kids is the problem.

to be fair the 4 you mention had very little time in englands academy system and got most of their coaching abroad.

 

[marchy]

But of course this only sees things from the Premier League team's perspective. The experiment sent out the message that the football league clubs are there to be used as nothing more than trial material. And to make things even worse, we are going to do it in the competition that is the only realistic chance you have of getting to Wembley!

Agreed, I was merely offering what could be seen as a positive from the Premier League clubs position. I can undertsand why they tried the expirement but it doesn't look to have been a success

 

[Eggs]

To be honest, I suspect the problem is less one of poor quality youth grade competitions as much as it is the transition to senior football. The big clubs harvest much of the best talent, but there is next to no chance of those players breaking into the first team. Couple that with both the huge fees English players command, and the apparent reluctance to play abroad (in part no doubt due to the wage drop they would probably have to take), and young players simply don't get first team football at a decent level.

So the typical path seems to be farmed out to club after club on loan, until they eventually get bored and leave at the end of their contract to a lower league club, at which point they might slowly climb back up the ladder. Michael Keane is a good example of this.

The players themselves need to take a degree of responsibility. They could easily sign for a 'lesser' club at youth level and get an easier path into the first team. They could easily take a drop in wages and play overseas.

Our youth system hasn't hampered players like Eric Dier, Mustafi, Paul Pogba and Pique at United and so on. I really don't think the training we give kids is the problem.

...there's clearly no right or wrong to this but the ultimate test for youngsters is when they play open age football. These days, Premiership clubs can only make this happen by promoting to the first team or sending on loan. These lads will all be talented but they need this challenge.

For me, it's much better if they realise that challenge in-house via reserve team football. The problem with that route is that it often becomes clogged with senior players unable to get a game for the first team. I remember Sammy Lee in charge at the Reds and he played himself most games which restricted a place for a promising youngster.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

to be fair the 4 you mention had very little time in englands academy system and got most of their coaching abroad.

For sure, but they all left because they lacked opportunities to play. If I remember rightly, Dier was sent to us precisely to get exposure to a more competitive environment, which suggests that aspect of our youth system isn't the problem.

...there's clearly no right or wrong to this but the ultimate test for youngsters is when they play open age football. These days, Premiership clubs can only make this happen by promoting to the first team or sending on loan. These lads will all be talented but they need this challenge.

For me, it's much better if they realise that challenge in-house via reserve team football. The problem with that route is that it often becomes clogged with senior players unable to get a game for the first team. I remember Sammy Lee in charge at the Reds and he played himself most games which restricted a place for a promising youngster.

Kids are getting plenty of action via loans though. Look at Chelsea. McEachran played nearly 100 games whilst out on loan, usually at a decent level, yet never looked like breaking through into the first team. It's not unusual for these lads to get ~50 games at Championship level and still be nowhere near the first team of their parent club. It can't be lack of preparation, can it?

 

[Eggsyblueskin]

....good luck in the final, just heard Lundstrum on SSN suggesting the competition shouldn't include Premiership clubs and I think most would agree with that sentiment. I think the aim has been to give junior players the experience of playing open age football but there's surely a better way of doing this (a return to reserve league football perhaps).

Couldn't agree more. For me the academy system has always been flawed because of this. I think it's no surprise that some of the best young players come from lower leagues, in time honoured fashion, having already established themselves in their first teams. For us, Holgate, Stones,Calvert-Lewin and now Lookman immediately spring to mind. The u23 league bares little relation to full blown competitive football. A return to a proper reserve league is definitely the right answer.

 

[atrottel]

I think the trophy thing wasn't a bad idea (from our pov and I do understand the reluctance of the clubs in Leagues One and Two) but what made it a failure was the scheduling of the matches, which meant that we put out weakened youth teams because of international obligations.

IF the PL really want to give the Academy players the exposure (and I suspect that certain clubs are quite happy with the way the 'youth business' operates) then they should club together and give decent prize money for a competition which would involve strictly-age-limited PL teams and lower league clubs. Those lower league clubs could decide whether or not to play full teams but maybe the incentive would be there because of the prize money.