Pretty sure care homes aren't reading this forum.
Current Affairs World Health Organisation
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So intelligence agencies across the board (including Germany who have an excellent record on combatting this virus) are wrong? 4-6 weeks is there estimate of the damage done to other countries.
The timeline is instructive.
-China's first cases of Coronavirus November 17.
-China informs WHO of first known infected patient with Coronavirus December 8
-Dr Ai Fen, Chinese whistleblower, tells world about treating patient with SARS like virus December 16
-Taiwan warns WHO of contagious virus in China December 31.
-Hong Kong warns WHO of contagious virus in China January 4.
-WHO announces there is no human-human transmission of virus based on China's investigations January 14.
-China informs WHO of epidemic January 20.
-Der Spiegel reports China's leader Xi Jinping asked WHO chief to withold information about human-to-human transmission and delay a pandemic warning January 21.
-WHO announces Covid-19 a pandemic March 11.
So WHO knew the story, yet they still allowed samples to be destroyed, China to censor information, disappear whistleblowers, ignore independent information from other authorities, did not tell world to close borders to China - in fact condemned USA when it did so. WHO is a massive failure and conspired with China to cover this up until it was too late.
Missing the point entirely. @Walken is content that the lives of millions of people are at risk because he works with the WHO apparently and as long as the money flows (like China and the WHO), he doesn't bother to ask the tough questions or care about the answers. I'm alright Jack!
I don't think he is and I'm not sure you can make the claim you have purely because he isn't agreeing with you that the WHO are evil.
Yes, WHO was under heavy influence of China's misinformation. But having both Hong Kong and Taiwan tell the WHO about a virus in China and expecting this to be acted upon when WHO is hearing from China that there is no deadly virus is not damning evidence. You do know the relationship between Taiwan, Hong Kong and China, yes? You do know the difference between an epidemic and a pandemic, yes? There was an epidemic in Wuhan on January 20th, but it wasn't a pandemic by definition. There was an pandemic on March 11 by definition as it spread to multiple countries. As to whether the WHO is responsible for turning the epidemic into a pandemic is what is at issue, and this curiously seems to be a right-wing talking point.
Here is some additional information to add to your timeline:
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-China's first cases of Coronavirus November 17.
On November 17 there was no indication this was a Coronavirus, it was called a pneumonia of unknown cause.
-China informs WHO of first known infected patient with Coronavirus December 8
On December 8, there was no indication this was a coronavirus as the RNA sequence hadn't been identified and linked to the Coronafamily. It was reported as a "pneumonia of unknown cause".
-Dr Ai Fen, Chinese whistleblower, tells world about treating patient with SARS like virus December 16
Yeah, China did a lot to silence this doctor...this has nothing to do with the WHO
-Taiwan warns WHO of contagious virus in China December 31.
A day after, on Jan 1, WHO sets up an incident team to investigate this.
-Hong Kong warns WHO of contagious virus in China January 4.
This is the same day that WHO tweets to on social media of the virus in Wuhan. A day later, the WHO published a report on "pneumonia of unknown cause" based on the limited information and/or misinformation from the Chinese government.
-WHO announces there is no human-human transmission of virus based on China's investigations January 14.
Yes, China reported to the WHO that there were only 44 cases of the virus. What the WHO actually said was there was "limited human-to-human transmission" but that human-to-human transmission was likely. What was said by the WHO was what was reported to them by the Chinese government, the WHO tweeted:
"Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel (2019-nCoV) identified" You do understand the difference between the WHO and China, yes?
-China informs WHO of epidemic January 20.
And two days later WHO says there is evidence of human-to-human contact in a report.
-Der Spiegel reports China's leader Xi Jinping asked WHO chief to withold information about human-to-human transmission and delay a pandemic warning January 21.
Yes, China was purposely downplaying this virus and feeding limited information or misinformation to the WHO. This is on China. On Jan 22 the WHO issues a statement online (for all to see) saying there was evidence of human-to-human transmission of the virus in China.
-WHO announces Covid-19 a pandemic March 11.
Prior to March 11 and after January 20, the senior leadership team of WHO travels to China again (Jan 28). The WHO reconvenes the Emergency Committee to designate the virus a "Public Health Emergency of International Concern" (Jan 30), The WHO prepares a strategic response plan (Feb 3), the WHO convenes a research/innovation forum to deal with COVID (Feb 11/12), the WHO spends a week in Wuhan with a team of international experts (Feb 16-24).
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The real issue the WHO was grappling with at the time is the same issue that is on-going right now: 1) the virus has different levels of virulence, 2) we still don't know exactly how it is transmitted in a manner that causes serious illness: repeated contact with infected, via fomites, via a single contact, and 3) how various cofactors and colliders influence its severity. So, when you have a limited number of cases, with different levels of severity (some on ventilators, some with only a mild fever/cough), and various cofactors, it is difficult to release definitive statements about what to do, and especially difficult to do in the early stages of an epidemic.
Here's some questions for you:
What do you think of the idea that 5G cell towers are the cause of coronavirus?
What do you think of Bill Gates donating hundreds of millions of dollars to fight infectious disease?
Would you get a covid-19 vaccine if it were available?
You answer doesn't disprove WHO is at fault though. Der Spiegel is standing by the intelligence dossier it has that China pressured the WHO. What we don't know is whether WHO acquiesced to it or in what way it did. I'm sure more leaks will come that will illuminate the WHOs role in this as the World's governments and people ramp up the demand for answers to this unprecedented crisis in the West. Australia is pushing for an international investigation and the UK needs to fall in line - something else Labour could helpfully lead on in the UK if it wasn't so weak willed.
As for your questions which I'd happily answer, they are irrelevant to the WHO. 5G obviously isn't a cause. Bill Gates is an idiot, but I have no objection with him spending his money however he wants to - I personally don't think his money should be accepted but that's another matter. The third I obviously have no need for since I've already had this virus and recovered from.
As for your questions which I'd happily answer, they are irrelevant to the WHO. 5G obviously isn't a cause. Bill Gates is an idiot, but I have no objection with him spending his money however he wants to - I personally don't think his money should be accepted but that's another matter. The third I obviously have no need for since I've already had this virus and recovered from.
Here's another political stunt by the WHO - they are spending alot of time communicating about politics for some reason... It's supposed to be a health organisation.
World Health Organization: Chief Tedros Has No Power to Include Taiwan
The World Health Organization’s (W.H.O.) top legal officer claimed on Monday that Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, the head of the agency, has no power to invite Taiwan to this month’s World Health Assembly, despite widespread pressure on the group to do so.
The remarks by Steven Solomon follow a tumultuous few months in which Taiwanese officials have consistently denounced the W.H.O. for disregarding early warnings that could have contained the Chinese coronavirus pandemic. Tedros, who leads the organization despite not being a medical doctor, has responded by claiming that Taiwan launched a campaign of racist invective against him, offering no evidence for his claims.
“To put it crisply, director-generals only extend invitations when it’s clear that member states support doing so, that director-generals have a mandate, a basis to do so,” Solomon, the WHO attorney, told reporters. “Today, however, the situation is not the same. Instead of clear support, there are divergent views among member states and no basis there for — no mandate for the DG [director-general, Tedros] to extend an invitation.”
The Taiwanese government responded with outrage to Solomon’s remarks, noting that the head of the W.H.O. is the agency’s top authority and thus has the power to invite whoever he wishes to organization events.
“In fact, the W.H.O. Director-General does have the discretionary power to invite observers to the W.H.A. [World Health Assembly],” Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Joanne Ou told reporters. Ou demanded “neutrality and professionalism” from the W.H.O. on the matter and decried an alleged “secret agreement” between the agency and the Communist Party of China signed in 2005 to exclude Taiwan from the public health group. The agreement allegedly demands that the W.H.O. ask the Communist Party permission for any activity involving Taiwan, as the agency would recognize Taiwan as a province ruled by Beijing.
www.breitbart.com
World Health Organization: Chief Tedros Has No Power to Include Taiwan
The World Health Organization’s (W.H.O.) top legal officer claimed on Monday that Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, the head of the agency, has no power to invite Taiwan to this month’s World Health Assembly, despite widespread pressure on the group to do so.
The remarks by Steven Solomon follow a tumultuous few months in which Taiwanese officials have consistently denounced the W.H.O. for disregarding early warnings that could have contained the Chinese coronavirus pandemic. Tedros, who leads the organization despite not being a medical doctor, has responded by claiming that Taiwan launched a campaign of racist invective against him, offering no evidence for his claims.
“To put it crisply, director-generals only extend invitations when it’s clear that member states support doing so, that director-generals have a mandate, a basis to do so,” Solomon, the WHO attorney, told reporters. “Today, however, the situation is not the same. Instead of clear support, there are divergent views among member states and no basis there for — no mandate for the DG [director-general, Tedros] to extend an invitation.”
The Taiwanese government responded with outrage to Solomon’s remarks, noting that the head of the W.H.O. is the agency’s top authority and thus has the power to invite whoever he wishes to organization events.
“In fact, the W.H.O. Director-General does have the discretionary power to invite observers to the W.H.A. [World Health Assembly],” Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Joanne Ou told reporters. Ou demanded “neutrality and professionalism” from the W.H.O. on the matter and decried an alleged “secret agreement” between the agency and the Communist Party of China signed in 2005 to exclude Taiwan from the public health group. The agreement allegedly demands that the W.H.O. ask the Communist Party permission for any activity involving Taiwan, as the agency would recognize Taiwan as a province ruled by Beijing.
World Health Organization: Chief Tedros Has No Power to Include Taiwan
The W.H.O.'s top legal officer claimed on Monday that it has no power to invite Taiwan to this month's World Health Assembly.
www.breitbart.com
Thanks for the answer on 5G. Why are you obsessed with the WHO? I'm not absolving them...they are a bureaucratic institution. I'm just not sure why they are the targeted talking-point on right-wing media. I'm wondering if this ties into the whole New world order nonsense, and the anti-globalization/pro-nationalism on the right/fringe-right
TheBigIguana
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To answer one of those, Gates has enough money to run 10 WHOs on his own and still have a good $50 billion left over. So while I respect his attempts to work on this issue and the money he has given, ultimately he's still a POS who has made way more than anyone ever should make and not put nearly enough of it back into things to be given praise for some being some kind of "philothropist."
Well, this is curious because you were saying WHO is at fault for the spread of the virus. Go back and read your own posts and you'll see that you are assigning blame. I respond with evidence that they were fairly transparent and responding in a reasonable timeline with imperfect information and/or misinformation. So it certainly tempers the culpability of them vis-a-vis China. Of course they were pressured by China--but this is a China issue, not a WHO issue. That they caved to pressure is at issue, but again, if you look at the timeline I posted (in response to your's) it shows that they were pretty responsive given what they had to work with.
And again, the major issue with the WHO response to covid-19 is what I already posted: 1) the virus has different levels of virulence, 2) we still don't know exactly how it is transmitted in a manner that causes serious illness: repeated contact with infected, via fomites, via a single contact, and 3) how various cofactors and colliders influence its severity. So, when you have a limited number of cases, with different levels of severity (some on ventilators, some with only a mild fever/cough), and various cofactors, it is difficult to release definitive statements about what to do, and especially difficult to do in the early stages of an epidemic. For example, you said you had Covid-19...your symptoms might have been none, mild, or severe (I don't know what they are) but you have recovered while others have died. This makes it difficult to issue definitive statements about how to proceed.
I'm not surprised that Australia is pushing for an investigation, but this is more a review. You are aware that Australian gov't is pushing for the WHO to have MORE power, not less.
They're just an international health version of the League of Nations - totally toothless, beholden to donors and thus unable to act.
If the virus had originated in the USA, they'd have been just as submissive to the USA as they are to China now. Part of me pities them and is reluctant to have a pop because they are what they are and their real purpose and usefulness is in poorer countries. But at the same time they were a propaganda mouthpiece for China in early January when they flat out lied about human to human transmission.
Overall though, they're basically a non-factor for richer states, who were always going to co-ordinate their own response. For example, the idea of a WHO funded and developed track and trace app used internationally is laughable - says it all.
As @verreauxi says above, the likes of Australia are wanting WHO to investigate and give them powers - but it's telling that the WHO aren't publically supporting any such suggestion, because they don't want it.
Personally I'd rather have a new, independent task force developed, internationally funded, that has weapons inspector style powers and is completely separate from the WHO.
If the virus had originated in the USA, they'd have been just as submissive to the USA as they are to China now. Part of me pities them and is reluctant to have a pop because they are what they are and their real purpose and usefulness is in poorer countries. But at the same time they were a propaganda mouthpiece for China in early January when they flat out lied about human to human transmission.
Overall though, they're basically a non-factor for richer states, who were always going to co-ordinate their own response. For example, the idea of a WHO funded and developed track and trace app used internationally is laughable - says it all.
As @verreauxi says above, the likes of Australia are wanting WHO to investigate and give them powers - but it's telling that the WHO aren't publically supporting any such suggestion, because they don't want it.
Personally I'd rather have a new, independent task force developed, internationally funded, that has weapons inspector style powers and is completely separate from the WHO.
mmmmsnouts
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To try and get the blame off two incompetent right-wing leaders who have done a horrendous job protecting our respective countries and helped get hundreds of thousands of people killed.
Billy Dean
Player Valuation: £70m
Weapons inspectors are just as beholden to rich states as the WHO no? It's the nature of the beast unfortunately. Look at war crimes tribunals that only try Africans because they're the only ones weak enough not to resist them. I think what you say about the WHO applies to most UN organisations: they're only useful in poor countries that no one cares about. They try their best but they're hamstrung. Look at the Security Council. They can't get any kind of meaningful resolution through without US/UK on one side, or Russia/China on the other vetoing it.
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