Who can't handle it?

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ToxtethBlue said:
I'm gutted we missed out on him. The balance would be perfect if we had a pacy winger. I hope Moyes looks for one in the summer, someone quick who can get in behind teams.

I have a feeling he'll go for someone like Hunt though. Decent player but not what where looking for.
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[Poor language removed] the summer, get one in Jan. And [Poor language removed] Stephen Hunt as well, personally don't even think he's decent. And he's a ****.

You see the goal Victor scored at the weekend by the way.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBbJntANfRY[/media]
For [Poor language removed]'s sake.
 

I believe it really is that simple in the midfield.

When you can't consistently possess the ball, you're inviting the other team to possess it and inevitably score against you.

I like Arteta out wide but since we didn't re-sign Manny, I'd like to see Arteta moved more centrally so that he can hold up the ball, create opportunities, and relieve the pressure a bit on the defense.

I'm guessing Osman and Pienaar would have to be out wide for us in lieu of Arteta but we really need that spark and that dominating force in the middle of the park.
 
TX Bill said:
I believe it really is that simple in the midfield.

When you can't consistently possess the ball, you're inviting the other team to possess it and inevitably score against you.

I like Arteta out wide but since we didn't re-sign Manny, I'd like to see Arteta moved more centrally so that he can hold up the ball, create opportunities, and relieve the pressure a bit on the defense.

I'm guessing Osman and Pienaar would have to be out wide for us in lieu of Arteta but we really need that spark and that dominating force in the middle of the park.
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I've enjoyed reading all the posts in this thread, one of the better threads for a while.
I don't see why a few people see Osman as a wide player though. I agree he can play there if asked, but he doesn't hug the line when played there. He is always slightly infield and I don't think I've ever seen him cross a ball in from the wing? From outside the box sure across goal face, but not a Neville style byline cross type of ball in to the box.

Osman is your 'give the ball to him to get us out the [Poor language removed]' type of player. Even with 3-4 players on him he regularly will get the ball, turn and start an attack jinking his way past whomever is around him.
He sometimes lacks that last touch to play a striker through or play a through ball in the path of an attacking player and he does get tackled, but is not given as much cover as Arteta from refs. Put him a bit deeper in the middle where he is not as marked and has a few extra seconds to pick a killer pass or move with the ball and he could do some real work in that role I think.

Personally I think he is a better player than Arteta. He lacks the little tricks that Arteta does, but they usually come to nothing or give the ball away so I'll forgive him that. I think he needs to be considered more as a creative outlet than a lot of people give him credit for.

Pienaar is a cracking attacking style winger and is dangerous when he has the ball, but he will get found out soon and marked out the game like Arteta is. Osman now and again though still gets left alone because he is so small and he has good movement off the ball and gets in to good positions. Stick him in the middle and get him to orchestrate the play and I think it would work well. He can also support attacks from deep (best goal of last season for example).
I think I've actually read an interview where Moyes has said playing in the middle is Osman's best role, but that was toward the end of last season. I wonder where he see's him now.

For me I'd keep swapping Pienaar and Arteta on the wings, but I'd also like to see an all out winger like VDM now and again just to mix it up.

Arteta gets marked out of games now, but only because teams know he is our most obvious creative force. If we have 5-6 really creative talents then they can't mark everyone and the openings will crop up to get behind defences etc. The other team can't mark so many players effectively, which is pretty much what happened to us against Arsenal 2nd half last weekend.
 

That's why I think most Evertonians were clamoring for a creative central type of midfielder that would give Osman and Arteta more space.

Don't think Fellaini (while I think he'll be a good acquisition) fits that role.
 
TX Bill said:
That's why I think most Evertonians were clamoring for a creative central type of midfielder that would give Osman and Arteta more space.

Don't think Fellaini (while I think he'll be a good acquisition) fits that role.
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I agree. I don't actually know what type of role he DOES fit in our current squad. Maybe this is what Moyes means when he says its time for change.
 
Chris said:
I've enjoyed reading all the posts in this thread, one of the better threads for a while.
I don't see why a few people see Osman as a wide player though. I agree he can play there if asked, but he doesn't hug the line when played there. He is always slightly infield and I don't think I've ever seen him cross a ball in from the wing? From outside the box sure across goal face, but not a Neville style byline cross type of ball in to the box.

Osman is your 'give the ball to him to get us out the [Poor language removed]' type of player. Even with 3-4 players on him he regularly will get the ball, turn and start an attack jinking his way past whomever is around him.
He sometimes lacks that last touch to play a striker through or play a through ball in the path of an attacking player and he does get tackled, but is not given as much cover as Arteta from refs. Put him a bit deeper in the middle where he is not as marked and has a few extra seconds to pick a killer pass or move with the ball and he could do some real work in that role I think.

Personally I think he is a better player than Arteta. He lacks the little tricks that Arteta does, but they usually come to nothing or give the ball away so I'll forgive him that. I think he needs to be considered more as a creative outlet than a lot of people give him credit for.

Pienaar is a cracking attacking style winger and is dangerous when he has the ball, but he will get found out soon and marked out the game like Arteta is. Osman now and again though still gets left alone because he is so small and he has good movement off the ball and gets in to good positions. Stick him in the middle and get him to orchestrate the play and I think it would work well. He can also support attacks from deep (best goal of last season for example).
I think I've actually read an interview where Moyes has said playing in the middle is Osman's best role, but that was toward the end of last season. I wonder where he see's him now.

For me I'd keep swapping Pienaar and Arteta on the wings, but I'd also like to see an all out winger like VDM now and again just to mix it up.

Arteta gets marked out of games now, but only because teams know he is our most obvious creative force. If we have 5-6 really creative talents then they can't mark everyone and the openings will crop up to get behind defences etc. The other team can't mark so many players effectively, which is pretty much what happened to us against Arsenal 2nd half last weekend.
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Agreed, he's at his best in the middle. Outwide he's a big let down, defenders just pin him to the byline and he hasn't got the pace or strength to get away. He also cuts inside alot and leaves us exposed defensively.

What I was saying is start with Arteta on the right, Pienaar on the left and Osman in the centre but mix it about during the game. Swap Pienaar and Arteta at times, Osman and Pienaar and Arteta and Osman. That keeps teams guessing and it's harder to mark one out the game because there always moving.

Osman is great but Arteta is our only player who can really dictate a game from a central position. Because he keeps hold of it, because he can see that forward pass and because technically he's our best player.

Osman is good at nitting things together and linking play, with this current team for me he has to be in the middle. I think having Arteta, Osman and Pienaar is the must because they make us a much more creative and unpredictable team. Moyes should interchange them more though, he has three interchanable players at his disposal.
 
yup some great posts.. but just to re-cap on the original question..

who can't handle it?

to date we've had :

Baines
Yobo
Lescott
Pip
Yak
Arteta
Howard
Hibbert
Ossie

mmmm....

personally i think the airing of this question says more about moyes than anyone he may be talking about.

it reminds me of a previous 'trouble at mill' moment which he eventually patched up on a team 'outward bounds weekend'.

i think he's really had his head turned inside out over the summer and is struggling to re-discover his focus.

we're a pretty out-of-sorts team (bunch of supporters) just now, as the nomination list so far reveals.
 
Chris said:
I agree. I don't actually know what type of role he DOES fit in our current squad. Maybe this is what Moyes means when he says its time for change.
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Good question.

Hopefully we'll know soon.

To me, he looks most like he'd fit in the Cahill role. That's great too except for one small detail.

We still have Cahill. :lol:
 

It'll be interesting to see who Moyes picks.

It'll either be Osman or Fellaini in the middle or Cahill or Fellaini behind Yakubu.

He's certainly not a ball winner and he's not a wide player.
 
TX Bill said:
Good question.

Hopefully we'll know soon.

To me, he looks most like he'd fit in the Cahill role. That's great too except for one small detail.

We still have Cahill. :lol:
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Flog him. He's injury prone and getting older so might as well cash in now.

I'm sure Newcastle will give us a good price for him haha.
 
Bit of a tangent, but did anyone see these comments Cahill made about moving house,

“One of the best things I did was to move away from football, just concentrate on my family and my kids, and just come in and out of it when I need to be,” says Cahill.
“My problem was I was too enthused in it all. I slept, ate and breathed football and there was no outlet.
“Liverpool’s a beautiful city with beautiful people but I needed something different. I needed to be able to switch off and be able to go down the park with my kids without having to listen to an adverse comment.
“I still always go out for dinner in Liverpool and see the lads here but I needed a release from football. I can relax now without worrying about people saying I’m crap.”


I read that and was a bit gutted. He's one of my favourite players and I love the respect he gives to the shirt, reading that it was like he'd disconnected himself a bit or something.
 
Chris said:
I've enjoyed reading all the posts in this thread, one of the better threads for a while.
I don't see why a few people see Osman as a wide player though. I agree he can play there if asked, but he doesn't hug the line when played there. He is always slightly infield and I don't think I've ever seen him cross a ball in from the wing? From outside the box sure across goal face, but not a Neville style byline cross type of ball in to the box.

Osman is your 'give the ball to him to get us out the [Poor language removed]' type of player. Even with 3-4 players on him he regularly will get the ball, turn and start an attack jinking his way past whomever is around him.
He sometimes lacks that last touch to play a striker through or play a through ball in the path of an attacking player and he does get tackled, but is not given as much cover as Arteta from refs. Put him a bit deeper in the middle where he is not as marked and has a few extra seconds to pick a killer pass or move with the ball and he could do some real work in that role I think.

Personally I think he is a better player than Arteta. He lacks the little tricks that Arteta does, but they usually come to nothing or give the ball away so I'll forgive him that. I think he needs to be considered more as a creative outlet than a lot of people give him credit for.

Pienaar is a cracking attacking style winger and is dangerous when he has the ball, but he will get found out soon and marked out the game like Arteta is. Osman now and again though still gets left alone because he is so small and he has good movement off the ball and gets in to good positions. Stick him in the middle and get him to orchestrate the play and I think it would work well. He can also support attacks from deep (best goal of last season for example).
I think I've actually read an interview where Moyes has said playing in the middle is Osman's best role, but that was toward the end of last season. I wonder where he see's him now.

For me I'd keep swapping Pienaar and Arteta on the wings, but I'd also like to see an all out winger like VDM now and again just to mix it up.

Arteta gets marked out of games now, but only because teams know he is our most obvious creative force. If we have 5-6 really creative talents then they can't mark everyone and the openings will crop up to get behind defences etc. The other team can't mark so many players effectively, which is pretty much what happened to us against Arsenal 2nd half last weekend.
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I could use him in the middle but we have too many central midfielders. So, someone will have to play wide. I think that Osman can play wide, just like Arteta or Pienaar. I don't see Cahill or Fellaini playing there.

By joining Arteta Cahill and Osman as a trio to support one upfront, we'll the ability, the drive an the goals coming from the midifield.

With Fellaini as the box to box alongside some other defensive midfielder, we would get balanced.

Sometimes being smart is all you need to be a very good player. Osman can be that smart player. He just has to hold his position and drift inside... He's not a natural winger, but he has mobility he's good off the ball and can pose a real threat for defenders with his movements.

Having only one natural winger, I must say I don't see all that need for one. A player like Beckham is not a natural winger and for years he held right place in the Utd midifield. He can't dribble, but he can cross and he has tremendous stamina which allows him to go up and down and just appear in the right time in the right place to cross the ball.

That's what Osman could be doing. Osman has goals on his boots... His inside movements are superb and his skill is very good. With a good striker that can make link play, these 3 lads would be awesome.
 
TX Bill said:
Good question.

Hopefully we'll know soon.

To me, he looks most like he'd fit in the Cahill role. That's great too except for one small detail.

We still have Cahill. :lol:
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How about
Howard
Neville/Jags Yobo- Lescott- Baines
Arteta
Osman- Pienarr
Cahill- Fellaini
Yakubu

That's if we're playing 4-5-1
As many have said Arteta, Ossie and Pienarr are our most technically gifted players and could mix it up as could Fellaini up to a point. Cahill is probably (definitely) the least versatile of the five midfielders.
 

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